User experience fails in video games, part 2

What are the biggest fails of gaming experiences? In this episode, we explore those dreaded button-mashing mishaps.

What makes games sticky? Why is everyone playing Elden Ring?

We look at the mechanics of in-app purchases, being immersed in complex menus.  

We all know the essential part of a video game is gameplay. But what about the UX? In this podcast, we talk about video game user experience is better by improving your UI and UX design.

The frustrations of mashing that button accidentally makes you throw health instead of shooting.

What about the all-important menu experiences, accessibility and how to re-engage users when they take a break from your game.

All this, plus UX Tombola – what will it be – how will Mark Steeler sell this one?

All these questions, and even ones you didn't want to know, ANSWERED!

Plus the off-topic tangents you love.💎 Sign up for exclusive content: https://jubb.ly/ba4a52

🎥 Watch: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4bV3uVwN3UqQeh8B9N8-xg

#Podcast #Design #Games #UX #UI #Fails

PEACE!

Produced by:
Paul Wilshaw
Nick Tomlinson
Mark Sutcliffe
James Medd
Anthony Jones
Chris (put the dishes away) Sutcliffe

Title music: James Medd

Sound effects from https://www.zapsplat.com

Transcript

[mark]: 11:41

introduction I just

[Unknown1]: 11:43

a live remix

[mark]: 11:44

introduced. I think someone scream. I half way through.

[Unknown1]: 11:49

i feel like if anyone's if we have such a thing as like a regular listener to the show this is all very much part for the course at this point

[mark]: 11:58

I should hope so. yeah,

[Unknown2]: 12:01

so wait a minute is this mut not working can you still hear me

[mark]: 12:05

yeah, yeah, we can still hear you.

[Unknown1]: 12:06

i think you won mu e yourself

[Unknown2]: 12:07

well that that's a that's a big game me now

[mark]: 12:10

Yes,

[Unknown1]: 12:10

yes

[Unknown2]: 12:12

what the fuck

[Unknown1]: 12:15

what did you do it on your microphone

[mark]: 12:18

think you

[Unknown2]: 12:19

hey

[mark]: 12:19

need to know now you just don

[Unknown2]: 12:20

me it now

[mark]: 12:21

mute it yourself. No, No, youve only me to yourself now.

[Unknown2]: 12:24

why is

[Unknown1]: 12:24

okay this is

[Unknown2]: 12:25

the me working now ah what buddy

[Unknown1]: 12:28

this is quality podcast content

[mark]: 12:30

Oh yes.

[Unknown2]: 12:31

hello

[mark]: 12:31

oh, well, today's subject is the u. ▁x of podcasts.

[Unknown1]: 12:37

the ux of mute buttons

[mark]: 12:38

How not to make a podcast.

[Unknown2]: 12:43

ah boy i don't know what's going on here with this bick i don't know

[Unknown1]: 12:50

beret berry it worked that bad there was music the top of most of it anyway

[mark]: 12:55

Y, it

[Unknown2]: 12:56

to do it again it's got it's gonna be quiet now

[mark]: 13:00

shall we third time to char

[Unknown2]: 13:00

do again third tons of charm

[Unknown1]: 13:02

i don't know okay that works about but yeah

[Unknown2]: 13:05

so okay cool do it

[Unknown1]: 13:07

it was pretty funny that you thought you were muted and you weren't to be honest one

[mark]: 14:19

Gosh? I just realized it's been a week since we recorded last and it genuinely feels. I. We. It yesterday

[Unknown2]: 14:26

i know well

[mark]: 14:27

just told know where the time iss going.

[Unknown2]: 14:29

kind of feels like we did about ten minutes ago

[mark]: 14:34

Maybe that's what it is somehow that that intro felt longer every time.

[Unknown1]: 14:39

if it seem it feels to me like we've done this in or three times today

[mark]: 14:45

Yeahk, you. Yeahk, you.

[Unknown2]: 14:45

no i've been involved in that doing more than that and

[Unknown1]: 14:48

and to anyone listening that's a that's a little private jot between the three of us because this is the third time we've tried to record this intra and so far um this the best one so we apologize for that but this is as good as it gets

[Unknown2]: 15:03

we

[mark]: 15:03

maybe

[Unknown2]: 15:04

apologize that this is the best one

[Unknown1]: 15:07

yeah

[mark]: 15:08

yeah, maybe that's what we should say in our opening Faster horses a u ▁x podcast we are sorry, Just

[Unknown1]: 15:16

that's all right

[mark]: 15:18

really manage expectation.

[Unknown1]: 15:18

just maybe maybe just get some t shirts made with our faces on it it just says we're sorry i

[mark]: 15:24

Yeah, think I think that would work.

[Unknown2]: 15:25

well we we should definitely do that

[mark]: 15:28

We

[Unknown2]: 15:29

definitely do

[mark]: 15:29

do have merchandise with you. merchandise. Mhm.

[Unknown2]: 15:31

we have merge we have faster horses merch

[Unknown1]: 15:34

where can you

[Unknown2]: 15:35

uh you can actually

[Unknown1]: 15:35

get the faster horses mech

[Unknown2]: 15:37

you can you can get them from my website paul show up codo uk ford slash shop see i did that

[mark]: 15:43

Yeah, yeah,

[Unknown2]: 15:44

that was a lovely transition

[Unknown1]: 15:44

i genuinely thought you were just gonna go you can get them from my website

[mark]: 15:49

just leave it or not.

[Unknown2]: 15:50

yeah yeah

[mark]: 15:52

I

[Unknown1]: 15:52

but we've got your meat

[mark]: 15:52

like the way that the faster house' Merch is on a website that doesn't have Faster Horses mentioned in it once

[Unknown1]: 15:59

paul is

[mark]: 15:59

that'

[Unknown1]: 16:00

faster horses

[Unknown2]: 16:01

well i i'm like the back end of the pana so

[Unknown1]: 16:08

that's the most important bit that's the business end

[mark]: 16:10

Yeah, exactly.

[Unknown2]: 16:11

yeah that's the business end yeah yeah it's like

[Unknown1]: 16:12

has that's where all the good

[Unknown2]: 16:14

yeah

[Unknown1]: 16:15

goes on whereas

[Unknown2]: 16:16

yeah

[Unknown1]: 16:16

you've got sha ponies like me and mark up front stealing all the limelight but not contribute in very much

[mark]: 16:22

I just looking pretty. Yeah, yeah,

[Unknown2]: 16:24

they yeah

[mark]: 16:25

true,

[Unknown2]: 16:25

i

[Unknown1]: 16:26

it

[Unknown2]: 16:27

it'd be it i think our if we were a pantomime horse we'd be very similar to that game of thrones kind of horse kind of like our it kind of like starts really nicely drawn like mark and

[mark]: 16:40

oh yes. Oh, thank you.

[Unknown1]: 16:41

oh right yeah

[Unknown2]: 16:41

then it kind of like pe peters off into into

[Unknown1]: 16:44

oh

[Unknown2]: 16:44

like o scribble

[Unknown1]: 16:47

the the

[Unknown2]: 16:48

which should be me at the end

[Unknown1]: 16:50

the

[mark]: 16:50

Mhm.

[Unknown1]: 16:50

bulb effect one of that is fucking hilarious where it's like

[Unknown2]: 16:53

oh yeah

[Unknown1]: 16:54

three steps it's the three progress steps of the horse and then all of a sudden it's a tiger so it just starts redrawing a tiger for two panels and then it's back to the end of the horse again

[Unknown2]: 17:06

yeah

[Unknown1]: 17:07

absolutely amazing right anyway what's what's the subject today

[Unknown2]: 17:08

i was yeah yeah what's the

[mark]: 17:12

No, my min,

[Unknown2]: 17:12

subject you want to draw role

[Unknown1]: 17:14

yes

[mark]: 17:15

go on

[Unknown2]: 17:16

forgotten

[mark]: 17:17

for dog starts barking. Now

[Unknown1]: 17:22

what were we doing

[mark]: 17:22

we. I thought we wereugt continuing our conversation on video games and the U. ▁x thereof.

[Unknown1]: 17:28

vx

[Unknown2]: 17:28

yeah

[Unknown1]: 17:29

or video games part two if you like

[mark]: 17:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[Unknown2]: 17:31

parting pot

[mark]: 17:32

um. which would suggest that there was some level of planning or contingency in place. Absolutely. Isn't we just

[Unknown1]: 17:39

actually

[mark]: 17:40

enjoyed talking about games last week. Uh over two weeks ago and we wanted to continue today. and last week we kind of concluded. we have started talking about tutorials and on boarding, but kind of reon boarding. More than anything. The idea of when you leave a game something that you've put forty hours of work into, if I say work a play into, ideally, um, and then you leave it for a couple of months, and you come back and all of a sudden you've completely forgotten whatever the fuck it is you were doing. Uh, be it controls story mechanics, and the whole, The whole nine yards, And how do we reclaim that for a user? How do we remerse them? And there are a couple of things that use. Uh. That games are du. Some of it can be stuff in Lord and screens that reminds you of story and narrative of until that point, Um, some are training groans within the game itself so you can refamiliarize yourself with mechanics. Um. but yes, so that's kind of where we left the conversation. I think there's plenty of other avenues of attack. Um. Has anyone got anything they'd like to bring to the table?

[Unknown1]: 18:55

well

[Unknown2]: 18:56

war there's lots of things

[Unknown1]: 18:56

first off that was a lovely game of

[Unknown2]: 18:58

there was

[Unknown1]: 18:59

throne style recap of last week so

[Unknown2]: 19:02

yeah

[Unknown1]: 19:02

thanks for that yeah

[mark]: 19:02

Was it I didn't

[Unknown2]: 19:03

nice

[mark]: 19:04

watch? Gave, thon. I didn't expect gamethrones to have some northern Twt, andnn sing.

[Unknown1]: 19:09

these lords lords of

[Unknown2]: 19:11

the

[Unknown1]: 19:11

northern to acting games at game of thrones

[mark]: 19:12

Oh, yeah, that's true. No, lod.

[Unknown2]: 19:12

yeah yeah he was carol central to the plots

[mark]: 19:15

Yeah,

[Unknown1]: 19:15

yeah apart throwing a few breasts and a penis and you've pretty much got one episode there

[mark]: 19:22

that's a weend. so it isn't it? Yeah,

[Unknown1]: 19:24

yeah

[Unknown2]: 19:27

nice i'm well what yeah that i mean there's loes in there i i learned the other day that you can't pause alden ring

[mark]: 19:36

No, you can't but that's that's part of the mechanics of it. Yeah, is that

[Unknown1]: 19:39

he spoke about that great length last week paul

[mark]: 19:42

Yeah? add? did.

[Unknown1]: 19:42

did did you hear that on our podcast by the johns

[Unknown2]: 19:45

yeah well but you i i didn't realize you couldn't pause pae it though i thought i thought we talked about k on the map and stuff like that and and things like that you can go on but i didn't realize there was no pause

[mark]: 19:58

Yeah, it's

[Unknown2]: 19:59

and it was

[Unknown1]: 19:59

yeah

[mark]: 19:59

it's a really tricky one. Actually, I've been thinking about that because the poor lack of pausing in the game is done so that you know, Um, you can't. it. It contributes to the difficulty. when you're in a fight. It means that you can't change your equipment or you can, But it's a risk and it becomes a part of the wide game now. Of course that that means that you don't have any systems menus that also pause again and and to the point where you can actually still move your character around with the other buttons whilst you're in the Um. Master. In the menus, Um. And of course that does mean that it's so difficult to take a break.

[Unknown1]: 20:42

i wonder how

[mark]: 20:42

Um,

[Unknown1]: 20:43

much of that is technically because it's like an online game as well when you can pause online games can you and if they would

[mark]: 20:49

I don't know. The only reason I, I'd argue not is because Um, all the other Souls titles or from software games have similar mechanics where you unable

[Unknown1]: 21:00

say

[mark]: 21:01

to passe it, but I think that

[Unknown1]: 21:02

and

[mark]: 21:02

might be a consideration.

[Unknown1]: 21:04

i remember when the first dead space came out and it was a big thing that like not only could you not pause it but the menu was like in world it was like a projection of via your armor

[mark]: 21:16

Yeah, yeah,

[Unknown1]: 21:17

and that you would never basically it just gave you that sense that you were never safe at any point even if you just managing your inventory you could be like attacked and in fact it might have been number two where the mir a set piece out of that specific light fear an

[mark]: 21:32

hm.

[Unknown1]: 21:32

unesc like set piece of opening your menu and then someone comes out are you

[mark]: 21:37

I think I remember when I was at university, Dead Space being the when we were talking about you, I, being the one that you constantly go to, no matter what it was. The what module you were doing There would always be the one game that was the example,

[Unknown1]: 21:51

yeah

[mark]: 21:52

which in my opinion is probably a bit shortsighted, but that was. Um. That was the U are to to look, Was the way Dead Spurs Did. They did have quite a refined way of doing it. Um.

[Unknown1]: 22:05

here

[mark]: 22:05

I, I thought it was interesting. One of the mechanics in Metro twenty thirty three is that bullets are also your currency,

[Unknown1]: 22:14

bullets

[mark]: 22:16

So you've got to make a choice. You got to make a choice between whether you're buying stuff with bullets. Um, and of course you're on the risk of not being able to shoot anything. Um,

[Unknown1]: 22:26

shooting things with bullets i quite like that

[mark]: 22:30

mm,

[Unknown1]: 22:31

cause that that sort of carries the logic of that carries the net quite

[mark]: 22:36

go on,

[Unknown1]: 22:37

like that well like if you were a person who was in an apocalyptic wasteland who was like whatever they're doing what what was it metro

[mark]: 22:48

yeah, yeah, so yeah,

[Unknown1]: 22:49

which is i i've not i've never actually played metro but it's a bit like stalker in it where it's sort

[mark]: 22:52

Mhm,

[Unknown1]: 22:53

of set in the subways of russia and his all ns and stuff and you're out there killing him all but yeah like a bullet would be quite a rare and important thing so not only could you trade with them but you'd use them to shoot things in the face as well

[mark]: 23:07

yeah, yeah, yeah, I really liked it and it did something similar cause they they had, Um, I think are quite an interesting. you eye for. Uh, your bullet count as well, Um, but um, it did something similar when it talked when it came to making you feel unsafe because you have to take that risk and I think going back to Alden ring, the the way they've kind of mitigated. That is that realistically. you don't need to pause. The only reason you'd need to pause is Um,

[Unknown1]: 23:38

if you're a nbe

[mark]: 23:38

to save the environment, to to reduce the process in power whilst you were whilst it was idle, but at the same time you can also save the game and ▁quit at any point as well, so Um, I suppose the argument now is you are safe, Um at very specific points and those points are common. So if you didn't need to pop off the loo than you can do. and if you do need to go longer than just ▁quit, the game for a bit and go and touch grass,

[Unknown1]: 24:10

is that euphemism

[mark]: 24:11

go have. Um could be.

[Unknown2]: 24:15

i like it that that's what my son says when he talked about fortnight kids not taking a break and it said the need to go touch grass and it's like an insult

[mark]: 24:25

Yeah, that's where I've only heard that very recently. That was was basically where I heard it from, but not not your child. Don't worry, but but from my, I think from my sister and

[Unknown1]: 24:38

so

[mark]: 24:39

her children. But yeah, incidentally in Elden ring, the safe points, the, are called grace. And so it is known as Touching Grace when you find one of these pins.

[Unknown1]: 24:53

that that is a euphemism

[mark]: 24:53

So I do wonder if that is a euphemism for

[Unknown2]: 24:57

i sure is

[mark]: 24:58

Get off the game for a bit. You

[Unknown2]: 25:06

i like it i like it so good good okay i was worried that it was like a bad ux there was no pause or things like that but i think you've kind of justified it nicely that it's all

[Unknown1]: 25:21

i mean

[Unknown2]: 25:21

just to touch grass

[Unknown1]: 25:24

i i arguably it probably is bad ux but it's a good game mechanic and sometimes maybe those two things don't necessarily go hand in hand

[mark]: 25:32

kind of inflict almost. Yeah.

[Unknown1]: 25:35

yeah yeah like like the actually yeah so like

[mark]: 25:36

think' really interesting point

[Unknown1]: 25:41

if you wanted to talk in ideals right about what the best possible ux for a game would be it'd be so good that it basically played itself on it so there has to be like i know we've kind of touched on this the other week actually is that the games difficulty and mechanics and stuff should be the things that make it difficult and not like the ux the where the controls are led or the way the menus are navigated and stuff like that but um but yeah you've got to put a bit of like a bit of quote unquote bad ux in there to make it i don't know am i talking shit i don't know

[mark]: 26:18

' to give you a challenge to overcome.

[Unknown1]: 26:21

yeah yeah yes

[mark]: 26:21

Yeah, I, I know what you mean. Now Interesting with, There is another game that really tried to sell itself on having no pause menus. Um, and that was a favable three. I think it was Um, and that when you paused it. Um. I don't know if you know Paul, but you are muted right now and

[Unknown2]: 26:43

and i do know i do

[mark]: 26:44

Aker good. Just making sure

[Unknown2]: 26:45

know i'm just uh talking to co cocos just when to

[mark]: 26:49

get involved.

[Unknown2]: 26:49

talk to me

[Unknown1]: 26:49

derail live pon cast derail live pon cast derail live pon cast

[mark]: 26:51

One of my her opinion of Elder Ring is, um.

[Unknown2]: 26:55

yeah she's completed it

[mark]: 26:57

Oh, Mirker, new game plus,

[Unknown2]: 26:57

just uh she did it in about the thirty yeah yeah yeah yeah she's on the hard level now

[mark]: 27:02

yeah, yeah, the quicker. the speed run for Elden Ring is currently at thirty minutes to complete the game, which I just, I've not seen it, but I don't know how. The

[Unknown1]: 27:10

thirty

[Unknown2]: 27:10

cheese

[Unknown1]: 27:11

minutes what the fuck we just run straight to the like the last part

[mark]: 27:15

no idea. No idea. I refuse to watch it because I'm not that far and I've got character with forty. I was on him. So you know,

[Unknown1]: 27:20

yeah yeah

[Unknown2]: 27:21

oh okay

[Unknown1]: 27:23

i

[mark]: 27:24

um,

[Unknown1]: 27:24

just thought

[mark]: 27:26

but um, So yet, M the game Fabible Three. The way that that worked was it was gimmicky. To be honest, it felt like they. that. Um. The designers had latched on to this idea of not having any pause screens, and you did. Uh. When you went to the system's menu, it paused and it, in, in fact, it kind of just gave you extra steps to get to that system's menu, and the way it worked was when you paused or accessed your equipment, it would send you to a place called Sanctuary,

[Unknown1]: 27:56

oh yeah

[mark]: 27:57

And it was just this room and you have to go into rooms to access your equipment

[Unknown1]: 28:02

now that was fucking crap

[mark]: 28:02

And essentially what that meant you were doing is that to change your weapon, you'd have to teleport somewhere else. Go to go armory, select the weapon and then go out. Now. That's I can see the appeal for that, a certain r, p. G level I, for one, obsessive over collecting equipment, having a nice place to display it. stuff like that within playing.

[Unknown2]: 28:31

yeah

[mark]: 28:32

but that was, that was the basic menu system. So there was no quick movement, and when you got down to it when you were in that sanctuary, things were effectivelyed and if you needed to leave the game, it still felt like you weren't safe to do so because it still think system still felt like systems were still running in the background, which is really what people want to when they menus.

[Unknown1]: 28:59

that's another thing it just reminded me of like uh red dead redemption kind of took must have taken that idea and done it in a much better way because that was a lot of people's like a problem with that game is like it was all very slow and manual like get your guns and stuff you have to walk up to your horse and like pull it out of the saddle and people just thought that was too realistic but i really liked that and i thought i thought that was nice that you could only if you wanted a gun off your horse just to go and get it and then carry it on you physically i quite like that but i just don't i don't think fel did it in as nicer way or didn't see the idea

[Unknown2]: 29:33

yeah i yeah me too

[Unknown1]: 29:39

through and quite as quite a good aw but again that's like um that's a u x thing in it and not

[Unknown2]: 29:46

yeah

[Unknown1]: 29:46

not everyone has like a a lot of time to like luxuriously bask in a computer game menu selecting stuff sometimes you've got thirty minutes at lunch time and it's the only time you've got to play it and you just want to get something done and that

[Unknown2]: 30:02

yeah

[Unknown1]: 30:03

that makes a poor experience doesn't it

[mark]: 30:06

Yeah, I think there's a real. There's a real acknowledgement here on an severe acknowledgement that there are different ways of playing the game essentially or playing ear game. And there are people who only have half an hour now. Um, every time a Nick and I try to set off an online game, it takes as for it universally takes us at least an hour. No matter what the game is. We flared games specifically designed for cross platform play.

[Unknown2]: 30:37

yeah

[mark]: 30:38

And this is going back to Outriders, And and it still took us an hour to get into one another's games.

[Unknown1]: 30:47

i mean what what was the what was a really bad one monster hunter

[mark]: 30:51

Monster Hunter was particularly bad, because the there just wasn't the explanation on how to do it.

[Unknown1]: 30:59

there's no explanation the menus were terrible but also they wouldn't they didn't tell you this but you're not allowed to play a level for the first time with anyone else you got to complete it and then you've got to like replay it with a friend but they don't tell you that so we would try a match mick and join a game together it just wasn't working but there was no indication of why and that was really badd i mean like a like i say there was no notification on top of the fact that those menus are just horrendous to navigate anywhere too much

[Unknown2]: 31:29

yeah

[Unknown1]: 31:30

text not enough flight iconography not enough like helper text or instruction

[mark]: 31:35

You can see that

[Unknown1]: 31:36

really bad

[Unknown2]: 31:36

this

[mark]: 31:36

they trying to have a system in place, cause of this whole grouping and guild ballocks. that Um, they were trying to, they had. I think they had larger visions than than what was real. I think this is a very common problem with games design in general, if they set up systems in their games like this, like with the menu in the anticipation that this is going to be everybody's game for the next forty years, you know, and that everyone

[Unknown2]: 32:10

there i go

[mark]: 32:10

in the world is going to be playing Mon Hunter, and is going to be these vast communities. Now it's a noble ambition and there's no reason to say that that won't happen And are communities withinster hunter people who still play it today. Same with Sos games, but you still need to have systems in place that work on a much smaller scale, far more immediate.

[Unknown2]: 32:31

yeah there's a good you talked about that kind of like first level and that that's happened on a few games it can and its build as like a cooperative games and kind of in my house we love coop games and quite a few times i think um one one point was it a guacamole gua male

[Unknown1]: 32:56

are you

[Unknown2]: 32:56

too was a two play game but you couldn't access the other players until you lock them and until you'd met them so like i was playing through and kind of like thank go and then everybody else is just getting frustrating and knowing you just play this on your own its not really a two player game but that's kind of what he was sold as that's kind that was the big that's why i purchased it for that

[Unknown1]: 33:20

yeah

[Unknown2]: 33:21

cooperative element so don't make me go through and do a level and get and another cooperative element so don't make me go through and do a level and get and another thing with that as well because you do that thing with that as well because you do that you get ahead of the game mechanics before anybody else

[mark]: 33:33

Mhm.

[Unknown1]: 33:34

yeah

[Unknown2]: 33:34

and then everybody else then is catching up with you and then everybody else then is catching up with you because you've already done those levels and things like that and like why get you all in at the same time we kind of like you know if you need to do something you know just why make it hard for people to do that

[Unknown1]: 33:54

there's a there's a really bad one of those in dragon quest builders too so drew loves that game she loves to watch me play it and i keep saying like you can play it on if we both get it on switch we can both play it together but before you unlock multiplayer you've got to play at least like a quarter of the game till i open a portal to summon another person in your world so you can then play it with them they say i just don't understand why you would build that into a game why would why would you block out an entire like us p of your computer on your game

[Unknown2]: 34:30

yeah exactly

[Unknown1]: 34:30

like for some weird weird gameplay mechanics bunker so we've never done it and we've never played it gameplay mechanics bunker so we've never done it and we've never played it

[mark]: 34:32

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. then

[Unknown1]: 34:35

together together

[mark]: 34:36

if you, um, if you are advertising your game as a multiplayer experience, and then at the first quarter of the game, no bear mind. these are games that are now modeling themselves off being your job for the next you know, Foreseeable future

[Unknown1]: 34:53

eight

[mark]: 34:54

That you know, they're asking you to put ten hours into an experience before you get access to what you actually purchased for. If it was like that in any other

[Unknown2]: 35:02

yeah

[mark]: 35:03

sphere, in with any other, Um, you know technology,

[Unknown1]: 35:07

medium

[mark]: 35:07

imagine imagine you had to watch a film on Sil for the first twenty five percent of it before you unlock the sound.

[Unknown2]: 35:19

should

[mark]: 35:20

If it is integral to the experience you try, and a C area that you trying to cultivate.

[Unknown1]: 35:25

i mean he's literally

[Unknown2]: 35:25

yeah although i think wali did that so

[mark]: 35:28

Yeah, gran, they manage that,

[Unknown1]: 35:32

imagine

[Unknown2]: 35:33

but but in a nice way

[Unknown1]: 35:37

it is literally like watching the first twenty minutes of a film before drew's allowed to come in and sit down next to me and

[mark]: 35:42

Mhm.

[Unknown1]: 35:42

watch the rest of it

[Unknown2]: 35:43

yeah it's crazy yeah

[mark]: 35:45

Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 35:46

i i don't get that

[Unknown1]: 35:47

no its not

[Unknown2]: 35:48

which which also brings me onto another point as well online gaming in general general i find

[Unknown1]: 35:55

crap in it

[Unknown2]: 35:57

y anza bit crap because either i don't know whether this is down to matchmaking or who's playing online at the minute but it's either

[Unknown1]: 36:07

you

[Unknown2]: 36:09

it's very hit and miss you can kind of like get into like a you know kind of like if you join a squad with people you don't know or things like that then you're relying on people a either being as good as you or better or be being crap or say them being too good and they

[Unknown1]: 36:30

two good

[Unknown2]: 36:31

piss off and leave you behind it kinda like there's no i never feel like there's a middle ground of that and then

[Unknown1]: 36:37

i mean with

[Unknown2]: 36:38

you get people who

[Unknown1]: 36:39

online gaming

[Unknown2]: 36:41

ah yeah

[Unknown1]: 36:43

i just feel like in terms of creating that it must be very difficult to like engineer an an online game in terms of like matchmaking balanced matchmaking like

[Unknown2]: 36:48

oh yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 36:53

the technology be literally hosting and matchmaking a game and make sure making sure that it runs and doesn't crash i bet

[Unknown2]: 36:57

ah

[Unknown1]: 37:01

that's such a difficult thing to actually build it's unsurprising that it it's really done well and like and then you launch it and you get way more demand than you were either budgeted

[Unknown2]: 37:12

yeah

[Unknown1]: 37:12

for or expected and it just

[Unknown2]: 37:14

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 37:14

crashes anywhere

[mark]: 37:16

I

[Unknown2]: 37:16

yeah

[mark]: 37:17

think an example of this, perhaps done better, once done right would probably be something like League of Legends, which have you know they. It's necessary for them to have a robust tear system to to help. No, I nevered Legal legends, The people I I know on you who play it did a very good job of putting me off it. and it's not my. I'm not a very competitive player anyway, as as Nick would be able to tell you, even in Norman Sky, I' yet to get anywhere near the mission progress cause I spend my time looking at pretty ponds and building big pyramids out of you know, out of scrap metal.

[Unknown2]: 38:02

yep

[mark]: 38:04

But the legal legend has a tier system and the variat entry is is still very high, But when you get into those ashelons then you are being matched with people of a similar skill because you've got a backlog of information of data. You know whether it killed a death ratio, whether its matches W, et cetera et Ctera, That allows you to match quite well. I'm wondering whether that needs to be adapted changed and appropriated, for you know, a wider kind of type of game.

[Unknown2]: 38:41

i think as well i for me as well it depends on how i'm feeling sometimes i don't feel like i want to do an intense server and

[Unknown1]: 38:50

yeah

[Unknown2]: 38:50

get into massive battles i want to do with the more casual kind of stuff and kind of like and i feel like never never gets into that kind of gives you the option because it's so smoke and

[Unknown1]: 39:07

you

[Unknown2]: 39:07

mirrors behind the scenes you never kind of actually do that kind of you know what you feel like during today how would you feel like planes you know do you wanna get better and learn with people more experienced than you or do you wanna kind of like just kind of take it easy or and and i suppose kind of there's a bit kind of light that could be exploited that you know it could be exploited but at the same time know there's different times of the day i feel like a different type of player and just

[Unknown1]: 39:40

i

[Unknown2]: 39:40

doesn't give you that option or what you want to do

[Unknown1]: 39:43

i really like that idea and i'd love something like

[Unknown2]: 39:45

yeah

[Unknown1]: 39:46

that on sea thieves which i quite like to play a lot but it's there's a lot of like trawling on that game i think that ruins it for me personally and that'd be nice where you could just set up a session where you know you're in with like minded people who don't have any interest in fight in and there's lot like you said that you could exploits that but there's lots of ways where you could build things in

[Unknown2]: 40:10

yeah

[Unknown1]: 40:10

so that couldn't happen so you could you know like you if you just playing about you've got no progress or you've got no currency or

[Unknown2]: 40:18

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 40:18

you know there's no

[mark]: 40:19

Yeah,

[Unknown1]: 40:20

weapons even like the cannons on your on your ship dot work or something like that it be fairly easy to

[mark]: 40:21

Mhm, or you just can't take damage from other players

[Unknown1]: 40:25

do yeah yeah yeah yeah

[Unknown2]: 40:28

yeah yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 40:31

and I think there are there are. It's usually server and stuff like think stuff like Mincraft servers that have a specific purpose and they all have moder mods and they'll have additional kind of Um settings in place to to make sure that and they. They're often very intensely moderated by the the moderators in the in the game world or some else. A little bit of power is a dangerous thing, But um, there you know. it does go. If you do play by the rules, and then you can usually have that exact experience. You know. It just depends what what you can find at the time

[Unknown2]: 41:14

another question i wanted to ask as well said the ux of and this has become a massive kind of genre like farming sims and uh sys where you do jobs um i'd kinda like let an animal cross it is a massive example of this and whenever i play animal crossing i love animal cross in but there's a point in the game that and i don't know if i'd realize it or not then i think she i've just gone to work for six hours and

[Unknown1]: 41:47

yeah yeah

[Unknown2]: 41:47

i've just done the bidding of some furry animals ah and kinda like don't care like i've got like lots of tasks and i've i'm glad i've saved to all this money and i brought a house for them and like i kind of like when the fuck did that happen i'm like what

[Unknown1]: 42:06

like

[mark]: 42:07

which

[Unknown2]: 42:07

um and and

[Unknown1]: 42:07

animal animal crossing like

[Unknown2]: 42:09

yeah

[Unknown1]: 42:09

literally crosses a line where it goes from being a game to being like a daily literally crosses a line where it goes from being a game to being like a daily child is it child is it

[Unknown2]: 42:15

yeah yeah yeah and it it's a weird one i had to go cold turkey on animal crossing to stop it being like a like a job i feel like i felt like i perhaps should have like wrote a letter of resignation on the notice board and said like i'm not going back to this island or something i don't know

[Unknown1]: 42:33

i really w i wanna come to your island now i really w i wanna come to your island now

[mark]: 42:33

there's a phenomenon. though,

[Unknown2]: 42:35

yeah

[mark]: 42:35

Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 42:36

i

[mark]: 42:37

that's just a strike.

[Unknown2]: 42:38

i gave her month's note yeah i gave a month's notice i worry

[mark]: 42:43

There's um. There's an interesting phenomena of people who are Um, coming home from work and playing E or truck simulatated to for a was on end, you

[Unknown1]: 42:56

see

[Unknown2]: 42:56

yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 42:56

know or flight simulator. Mhm,

[Unknown1]: 42:57

that and like flight simulator yeah flight simulator is i think it was it was or it is on game pass i really want to play that cause

[mark]: 43:05

Yeah, e. chrs,

[Unknown1]: 43:05

it is just like super realistic

[mark]: 43:08

Chris explaent to me once that he did a Um. what it did. A lo, a low flight, a low altitude flight from Manchester to London. It took him two hours. It took him as long as it would take him to fly from

[Unknown2]: 43:21

eight

[mark]: 43:21

Manchester to London, and

[Unknown1]: 43:22

to actually do it it

[Unknown2]: 43:23

yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 43:23

you sat there. Only did it heped again, but

[Unknown1]: 43:26

i love that

[mark]: 43:26

I think it it taps into a specific escapism. and and and I think this is kind of where I think it it taps into a specific escapism. and and and I think this is kind of where the conversation can lead into a wider discussion about the nature of society. T. M. the conversation can lead into a wider discussion about the nature of society. T. M. You know about how the fact a lot of us will sit and play a game where we're You know about how the fact a lot of us will sit and play a game where we're cultivating a farm with a local community, because if that's one thing that we feel cultivating a farm with a local community, because if that's one thing that we feel will never be able to do um, right now, and that is our idea of escaping. and, but will never be able to do um, right now, and that is our idea of escaping. and, but also also

[Unknown2]: 43:56

hey

[mark]: 43:57

doesn't take as long to grow a turnip in Valet as it does in real life, And you know I can still do it from. Yeah, exactly,

[Unknown1]: 44:05

which is good ux

[Unknown2]: 44:07

yeah yeah yeah co come around and borrow borrow some of my nucleus they'll get them growing pretty quick

[Unknown1]: 44:16

so i feel like again we've like descended into talking about like mechanics and natural specific games stuff but have you got any

[Unknown2]: 44:23

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 44:23

examples of like actual video game ux good things or bad things because i add a bit of a think about one thing that i really hear about quite a lot of video games at the moment which is this like obsession with making the pointer move like a mouse and keyboard rather than

[Unknown2]: 44:45

oh yeah

[Unknown1]: 44:46

just using up and down on a deeper to like click between options so the first game i ever noticed with it in was destiny and destiny too but a lot of games particular games like destiny where you know the idea like luke sh was basically there the menu is almost exactly the same where you use the the left analog stick to move around a screen with a pointer that moves like a mouse but you're on a console with a controller with a d ad

[mark]: 45:17

Mhm.

[Unknown1]: 45:18

on it where you could literally just press up or down or left or right and jump around the menu and and also like correct me if i'm wrong listeners but it doesn't even give you the option to do that if you choose it's either like well it's not either anything you've got to use that like in uh mouse interaction and it's it's just terrible like the the way that it speeds up and you know when you press full in one direction on the deep add it kind of slowly scales the movement and then all of a sudden it shoots off the screen and you've got no idea where it's even gone to the whole thing's absolutely awful

[mark]: 45:55

Is it its

[Unknown2]: 45:56

yeah

[mark]: 45:57

interesting because parallel the where it works is obviously with a computer mouse and

[Unknown1]: 46:02

yeah

[mark]: 46:02

that's fine, but that's because the feedback the is um, far more is's far better represented. Were far more used to doing that.

[Unknown1]: 46:11

it's a one or one movement of the hand to the mouse in it that's the whole point yeah

[mark]: 46:13

It's yeah. Mhm, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown1]: 46:16

whereas it doesn't work like

[Unknown2]: 46:17

yeah

[Unknown1]: 46:17

that on a on a on a

[Unknown2]: 46:19

yeah

[Unknown1]: 46:20

analog stick

[Unknown2]: 46:21

and you've got the actual device you use in but when you try and emulate something with fresh air condo

[Unknown1]: 46:28

yeah yeah

[mark]: 46:28

yeah, exactly. you move your mouse as much as you need to move on a screen based on the rasu of sensitivity, and you just cos. thats that's a. That's a thing that's happening in ▁x and y space. as much as it is on screen. Then it becomes something that you can easily map in your head that now that will never happen in with a um, with a an analogu strip, an arog stick, because that's just not how you're moving. You're moving linearly. Um,

[Unknown1]: 46:53

it's like bounded as well though and

[mark]: 46:55

yeah,

[Unknown1]: 46:55

there's a certain distance you can go with an analog stick

[mark]: 46:58

Mhm, Yeah, exactly exactly. so I don't think I. I agree with you now. it's interesting, but the best systems for me. I say I'm a P. C gamer, so a lot of the games I have have curses like that, but it's ma mostus, so it's fine, but then what I'll do is have if I planing on console. I love my Conraontary Onc with a controller. The moment I um hit the deepad, it goes from the cursor to highlighting option number one, and I can immediately start using the de paad as I would um if it was a console game. And likewise, then I just move my mo, and A, The cursor breaks free from it and I'm able to use that basically switch between the two, and that's a very, very powerful way of of um of playing. I mean it, it demands a lot in terms of peripherals, but it does um. It does solve a lot of these problems for me.

[Unknown2]: 47:57

yeah you know i kind of think i i i

[Unknown1]: 47:59

body

[Unknown2]: 48:00

know what you mean it's kind of like i don't know why websites don't do that traditional kind of like you know if you navigate on our website and like why doesn't your mouse stick to that button and kind of you know where the navigation is and and things like that and i'm sure that make it loads easier for a lot people to do

[Unknown1]: 48:21

god yes that

[Unknown2]: 48:21

that and i don't know why that's not carried on

[Unknown1]: 48:25

like it just

[Unknown2]: 48:25

but i don't know if the the

[Unknown1]: 48:27

it just

[Unknown2]: 48:27

gear

[Unknown1]: 48:28

logs like the the y movement of the mouse and like clicks

[Unknown2]: 48:32

yeah

[Unknown1]: 48:32

between the option yeah like

[Unknown2]: 48:34

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 48:34

almost like the like the wheel mi on a mouse

[mark]: 48:37

Mhm,

[Unknown2]: 48:38

yeah yeah its almost like having a bit of like magnetic resistance on your pointer

[Unknown1]: 48:40

yeah that's really good they such a good idea

[Unknown2]: 48:44

that just kind of like not too much kind of resistance not like the new mugs charger on the macbook that dove heard if you trip over the wire it pulls the bloody mu off the the table

[Unknown1]: 49:00

correct

[Unknown2]: 49:01

that does not make safe that's mak stick

[mark]: 49:03

uhhuh,

[Unknown2]: 49:05

uh by ux i'm going to talk about i think one one thing that i thought of that we didn't cover last week is some dark ux and video games and i'm going to specifically point my finger at mobile games

[Unknown1]: 49:23

ah me

[Unknown2]: 49:24

uh and the ones that where they can fly it's was that spit in disgust nick

[Unknown1]: 49:31

at it was yeah i spit at you

[Unknown2]: 49:34

and

[Unknown1]: 49:34

mobile games

[Unknown2]: 49:35

ah and it's just like and it's like the the engross you ear and then you get to like something like level twenty and then you could only play like a level a day otherwise you've got then pay ridiculous and it's ridiculous amount it's not even like a token amount money like subscribing to our show is you know dirt cheap it's less than a cup of coffee you know let's do a little point you know but it's like it's like three ninety nine or something and then that only lasts for that day and then you have to do and again and it's like that is just purely extracting a market i've kind

[Unknown1]: 50:24

yeah

[Unknown2]: 50:24

of like some

[Unknown1]: 50:25

it

[Unknown2]: 50:26

t teenagers and you know

[mark]: 50:27

Mhm.

[Unknown2]: 50:28

kind of like kids kinda like you've got beer pocket money and it's just exploitation to the degree kind of

[mark]: 50:35

this is.

[Unknown1]: 50:36

it's not it's not a game

[Unknown2]: 50:36

some part of with un powered ryanair

[Unknown1]: 50:39

it's not a game

[mark]: 50:40

yeah. yeah, yeah, mm. I' say it's worse to be honest. Um, at the end of the day. at the end of the day I and I still turkey somewhere. Um.

[Unknown2]: 50:48

yeah i try to try

[mark]: 50:50

I think that so there, this is a big big subject and there's a lot

[Unknown2]: 50:55

yeah sorry

[mark]: 50:56

around here. No, no, don't apologize, Will like big subjects here. I and I think Uh, mobile is a good place to start because it tends to be worth these things. It's kind of that little ecosystem in which these things develop these, these egreedious sort of exploitation tactics. Um. I remember the release of Um, a Harry Potter game or mobile. No,

[Unknown2]: 51:27

yeah

[mark]: 51:27

the first time, So you get you go through the tutorial and you have certain amount of energy, shall we say for each day to spend on Um on on various tasks, And it would

[Unknown2]: 51:40

yeah

[mark]: 51:40

take you any. So you you're doing your levitation spell. It would take you energy to get through that and you progres. No, it was specifically done in such a way that you had enough energy up until the story beat where your character an avertar. Now we could talk about the psychology of creating a Aatars as well, But Um, your avatar that you've created and gone through the shore, tutorial is' attacked by some kind of creature and you've got to, And by this, I mean, it's a it. Your your character is actively being strangled at this point and then you got to break free and it says you've run out of energy. Would you like to buy so many gems? No, I'm not an impressionable youth, Hence why I don't have the blinkers on with Harry Potter, but um, it's if I was a, let's say, the target market for this and they'll be young. it'll probably be six, seven, eight, nine, ten year old.

[Unknown2]: 52:45

who are you

[mark]: 52:45

Who's doing this? Who? who? by and large if the, if they, growing up in an adjusted Who's doing this? Who? who? by and large if the, if they, growing up in an adjusted household haven't been exposed to children being strangled on their mobile forms household haven't been exposed to children being strangled on their mobile forms are probably going to freak out.

[Unknown2]: 52:59

yeah yeah

[mark]: 53:00

They. they've They've introduced. not only the the, you know, the the desire to continue playing. Um. And and that kind of

[Unknown2]: 53:07

yeah

[mark]: 53:07

compulsion loop as a means of getting money out to people. They're actually actively in inducing stress as a means of pushing kids to.

[Unknown1]: 53:16

extracting money out

[mark]: 53:18

Yeah, to extract money.

[Unknown2]: 53:18

i know it's you know when you when you explain it like that it sounds like a plot line from grange hill where one of one of the bullies take takes you in the hole strangles you and you can't get free until you give them your pocket money

[mark]: 53:35

That's That's

[Unknown2]: 53:35

like it

[mark]: 53:36

literally what it is you know.

[Unknown2]: 53:38

yeah yeah kind of y yeah

[mark]: 53:41

And so

[Unknown2]: 53:41

yeah

[mark]: 53:42

Yeah, theres this. The.

[Unknown2]: 53:43

just

[mark]: 53:44

And I think that the trouble is with this kind of thing is that Um. it happens in more in Morbile, and it's successful. I mobile. and then publishers get wind of it and start to introduce it into

[Unknown2]: 53:54

yeah

[mark]: 53:56

Um. into existing games into other games into console games Into you know, every single game

[Unknown1]: 54:04

what

[mark]: 54:04

now has a

[Unknown2]: 54:06

battlefront two was fucking

[mark]: 54:06

triple a release. Yes, exactly has a storefront has loop boxes, has, and has its own currcies, and

[Unknown2]: 54:15

yeah

[mark]: 54:15

generally more than one, so that they can confuse you into into various things. No,

[Unknown2]: 54:21

yeah

[mark]: 54:22

there are some games that do this very well. I've noticed. for example, in Norman' Sky, I actively looked for the bit where I can buy some currency because O. A. I can't believe you find it anywhere.

[Unknown1]: 54:35

yeah which is which is nice

[Unknown2]: 54:37

yeah

[Unknown1]: 54:37

barrier i

[Unknown2]: 54:38

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 54:38

remember mario odyssey did the same thing so i was playing mario odyssey and i saw that there was a second currency on it i was like fuck not marry or not marry or and it just turned it just turned out that actually what it was is every level as as a a specific currency that one went collected you can buy

[Unknown2]: 54:55

are yeah

[Unknown1]: 54:56

you can buy customizations based on that level but it's nothing to do with like real money or anything which actually like really nice like a really nice mechanic

[mark]: 55:04

Yeah, it can

[Unknown2]: 55:04

yeah

[mark]: 55:05

be a idea. The

[Unknown2]: 55:07

no

[mark]: 55:07

I think the worst I've seen for morebile tactics in a um, in a triple a title, Triple A being a kind of a mass appeal, huge investment type of big budgy again and was one of the. It was a football game, Pro Evolution or something like that. Um,

[Unknown2]: 55:34

oh yeah

[mark]: 55:36

and the the advertisement for it has a lot of you know, uh, football stars in it, or or sports persons, in general.

[Unknown1]: 55:45

i think it was one of the fee for games one it fee for like

[mark]: 55:47

Was it one of the fee agains,

[Unknown1]: 55:48

yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 55:49

And it was astonishing because every single thing there was no football in the actual gameplay footage whatsoever. Every single football play playing the game was playing some fucking gambling machine, like a Pichinco machine, or unlocking a a loopbx, or are doing some obscure miniig that was tantamount to gambling. That was, do know at ta e gambling,

[Unknown1]: 56:17

yeah yes that's the other thing

[mark]: 56:21

and and that was being sold as the game. So what

[Unknown2]: 56:24

yeah

[mark]: 56:24

when do I actually play the fuck in football?

[Unknown2]: 56:29

yeah the

[Unknown1]: 56:30

i don know you're a big fan of not

[mark]: 56:32

Oh yeah,

[Unknown1]: 56:32

only video

[Unknown2]: 56:33

yeah

[Unknown1]: 56:34

football video games but the real thing too

[mark]: 56:37

oh yeah,

[Unknown2]: 56:37

yeah

[mark]: 56:38

maphon. I like the bit where they shepherd the bit of leather into the outdoor cupboard. That's myorite.

[Unknown2]: 56:49

i can it's yeah but yeah i'll get this laysan and i think mo mobile

[Unknown1]: 56:56

home

[Unknown2]: 56:57

is particularly bad and i think they have

[Unknown1]: 56:59

so

[Unknown2]: 57:00

started int in that and i always find that in gaur is kind of like it it's a bit like your no you know your own clothes day at school if you're listen in this america in the uk we have uniforms and we can't wear our own clothes can't wear gucci every day you know we just have to reserve it for a special day in the year and yeah you know but i kind of it's that kind of like you know and if you haven't got that scheme or if you haven't got that in mo or things like that you become kind of like that poor kid i guess and kinda like you know kind of like poop people can pick on you and things like that and it becomes

[Unknown1]: 57:43

yeah well there's a there was a time like the other year where kids were getting called default at school because

[Unknown2]: 57:49

oh yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 57:50

they couldn't afford another skin on fortnight that could only afford the

[Unknown2]: 57:53

yeah

[Unknown1]: 57:53

default skins and they were using it as like a

[mark]: 57:55

The

[Unknown1]: 57:55

derogatory to

[Unknown2]: 57:57

yeah yeah

[mark]: 57:57

interesting thing is that there is there is a talk on Morebr gaming, and I can't remember the name of the chap who who does it as a Swedish guy, and he prefaces his conversation, which is, he basically says right for

[Unknown1]: 58:06

ah yeah yeah

[mark]: 58:11

this. For the duration of this talk, morality is going out of the window. We can't have this conversation Ethically essentially is what he admits to, and one

[Unknown2]: 58:19

area

[mark]: 58:20

of the things he speaks about is how what a designer should be doing again as his of the things he speaks about is how what a designer should be doing again as his ownner should be doing in Fortnight does do this. In fact, I said that the exemplar of ownner should be doing in Fortnight does do this. In fact, I said that the exemplar of this is daunnt, engender a culture where it's O care this is daunnt, engender a culture where it's O care to not spend money, And

[Unknown2]: 58:37

area

[mark]: 58:38

that means that every time you do spend money and known it to everyone, make you part of a society of people who have who have spent so much and then introduceed tears and stuff like that, so that this competition um, and make it so abnormal for people to E not spend money, essentially make it so that you are able to exclude those people. Make it so

[Unknown2]: 59:04

area

[mark]: 59:04

that you are able to um. Um. You know, pressure them into making this purchase, but make it so that your other players are the ones who are applying

[Unknown1]: 59:14

who are doing it well that's disgusting isn't it

[mark]: 59:14

that pressure, which is an

[Unknown2]: 59:16

yeah

[mark]: 59:16

absolutely abhorrent. That's basically macke

[Unknown2]: 59:19

ah

[mark]: 59:19

of Elien,

[Unknown2]: 59:20

and

[mark]: 59:20

Um.

[Unknown2]: 59:21

yeah yeah

[mark]: 59:22

And

[Unknown2]: 59:22

definitely

[mark]: 59:23

and you know it is started again to started in the mobile, uh, environment, Um, And and works worked its way into games like Fortnight, which have huge cosmetic markets. But it becomes exactly as you say. The One of the reasons we have uniforms at schools, or at least us. One of the arguments you were given is so that every one is on the same playing. It is on the same level when it comes to ho, their address and how they're presented. Uh,

[Unknown2]: 59:53

yeah yeah

[mark]: 59:54

And that means that if a kid isn't able to afford nice clothes, they can't be put in a particular bracket for that Because it school they are wearing the same thing. every out.

[Unknown2]: 1:00:04

yeah definitely which i think which i think's nice and i like it and and sometimes i think when you get that kind of and and now there's there's this whole culture of like pre ordering as well and you get if

[Unknown1]: 1:00:16

no

[Unknown2]: 1:00:17

you pre order ah you get kind of like a skin or

[mark]: 1:00:21

Mhm,

[Unknown2]: 1:00:22

you get kind of like a different type of weapon that you could never get unless you pre order it and what's what i find quite ironic about a lot of those things is like they they sell them as like the best armor plus you can get in the game

[mark]: 1:00:41

Mhm,

[Unknown2]: 1:00:41

when actually in reality what happens is you only are not that skinned when you've like done ninety nine percentage of that game and they'll then you get back to pre order bound and you thinking like i just pre ordered it i gave you my money off from give me the fu skin stray away i don't don't make me wait for it don't you know that's one of the reasons i p and it's that that kind of like whole psychology and the u of kind of like making people buy games and buy into it it's almost like the kick start up for for games doesn't you kind like

[mark]: 1:01:23

Mhm,

[Unknown2]: 1:01:24

here's my money and i'll pay you an extra ten quid to get some stuff that you know um mrs smith next door wouldn't get his

[Unknown1]: 1:01:34

it's that stuff's always the stuff's always crap as well like if it's something if

[Unknown2]: 1:01:38

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:01:38

it's a game where if it's a game where it gives you a boost or something that you'll always pick up a better piece of armor within the first hour anywhere so you never you never even

[Unknown2]: 1:01:47

yes

[Unknown1]: 1:01:47

use it

[Unknown2]: 1:01:48

i know

[mark]: 1:01:49

Um, Didn't out riders do that as well?

[Unknown1]: 1:01:52

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:01:54

yeah

[mark]: 1:01:54

The

[Unknown1]: 1:01:54

yeah

[mark]: 1:01:55

is quite funny. actually, outll, because that game was also glitious, Fuck at lunch. Um, And

[Unknown1]: 1:02:00

oh god yeah it was one it

[mark]: 1:02:01

one you you could put on a pair of shoes and it made your. For some reason it changed the way you dodge, and you kind of blinked, as the word is in in Dungeons and Dragons of Thing, where you basically teleport a short distance. But the funny thing was you disappear while she moved the distance. Your eyes and teeth didn't adul that you headed as well, I do,

[Unknown2]: 1:02:30

uh

[mark]: 1:02:31

and know of the floting apparitions would move with it. and and yet oh, that was very very amusing and they immediately put them back in the stash where uh, where they were never seen again. and when I went back to them, Lawr and behold, had out leveld the gear within the first half an hour of playing.

[Unknown1]: 1:02:48

he

[mark]: 1:02:48

And

[Unknown2]: 1:02:48

zero

[mark]: 1:02:50

but you have to do that, though, because if you give some one a gear at the beginning of the game, but is too powerful, say that it's end

[Unknown2]: 1:02:57

yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:02:58

game gear. then They you steam roll through the game. And if it's on

[Unknown2]: 1:03:01

hey

[mark]: 1:03:01

mine game, this becomes very very problematic. If it's a single play game, you basically say right, you don't need to play. No, you

[Unknown2]: 1:03:09

yeah

[mark]: 1:03:09

can, just you know, point and Blmb, and this comes to an interesting kind of diotomy Between you know, giving the user stuff that that there want. That's useful. That makes them feel uh, a centre, pride and accomplishment. Um,

[Unknown2]: 1:03:27

yes

[mark]: 1:03:27

but the same time can really, uh, just break the systems that you spent years putting in place. Because it, you know, Um, you've unlocked characters or or abilities of of tools. weapons, whatever That just gives you. give you the Ang goal And and you know we don't play again To watch the credits. So

[Unknown1]: 1:03:50

i i

[Unknown2]: 1:03:51

yeah true

[Unknown1]: 1:03:51

remember one one of the one of my favorite games and like one of my favorite experiences of playing a game ever was marvel versus capcom two and i loved it because i loved capcom and i loved marvel and after

[Unknown2]: 1:04:05

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:04:06

every couple of fights you would unlock a new character and it would either be a character that you knew from marvel or character that you knew from cap and i had no idea how many they were going to be and who they were and i played that game for hours and hours

[Unknown2]: 1:04:21

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:04:22

and hours on purely just to unlock more characters and then when you get that character you plays that character and you unlock more and more characters that experience is just completely gone from video games now

[Unknown2]: 1:04:35

oh yeah yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:04:35

like if if there's a character to one log and like cap come do this now you pay for it so like the last

[mark]: 1:04:41

Mhm,

[Unknown1]: 1:04:41

few street fight

[Unknown2]: 1:04:42

yes

[Unknown1]: 1:04:42

games had d l c where you buy new characters and like i remember

[Unknown2]: 1:04:46

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:04:47

and tech like tech was one of my favorite games to play as well because particularly like tech and tech the fun in that game for me was just unlocking the characters finding out who they were and how they play it and the news in them to unlock more characters i never really declared it to player and it's just nothing like it's something i really miss from games now is i unlocking content or lock in skins because there's no fun in being an adult and being able to buy whatever skin i want i could buy

[Unknown2]: 1:05:15

no

[Unknown1]: 1:05:16

like any skin on fortnight that i want immediately but there's no fun in that there's no like you don't earn it so

[Unknown2]: 1:05:22

does yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:05:22

you don't enjoy it you just and then you pay for it and you like oh the next one right yeah there's another two pound fifty out of my account

[mark]: 1:05:27

yeah, I've got

[Unknown2]: 1:05:28

yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:05:28

this now. No,

[Unknown1]: 1:05:30

yeah yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:05:30

yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:05:31

I think.

[Unknown2]: 1:05:32

definitely

[mark]: 1:05:34

oh yes. oh yeah. the Martle combat came. That came a couple of years ago. Now I can't remember

[Unknown2]: 1:05:40

by yeah

[mark]: 1:05:41

which number it was. It might the latest one unrelease. It was fifty pound. I think sixty percent of the character ruster was locked behind pair walls.

[Unknown1]: 1:05:51

fingal

[Unknown2]: 1:05:51

ah that's frustrating

[mark]: 1:05:52

Something like that.

[Unknown1]: 1:05:53

that's disgusting in it

[mark]: 1:05:54

There was a couple could and locking game. But people didn't

[Unknown1]: 1:05:57

no

[mark]: 1:05:57

know which characters were going to be. You know, available for purchase, What which, which weren't, And it might have even been locked behind season passngers to flight. That and so, people, as you can imagine, were not happy, But the point it. The thing is they did that on week two of its launch it went down by about seventy five percent in price because no one was fucking by in it. And

[Unknown2]: 1:06:22

yeah

[mark]: 1:06:23

and, and I think that's part of the arrogance of the industry in these contexts is that it assumes that the thing you're creating is going to be something that people will throw their money at from now till the end of time, especially if you are operating on a live service model. And furthermore that you can actually deliver content that's new and engaging and fun in this ecosystem. To maintain that that investment. I've not seen it happen once yet successfully.

[Unknown1]: 1:06:52

well

[Unknown2]: 1:06:53

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:06:53

yeah what's that game that ubisoft brought out that was supposed to be like a a destiny killer and they said there's gonna be this rod map you compare for three for the next three dlcs right now and the were like each dlc was about for equids and they said it's going to uh we've got enough content for the next five years and then

[Unknown2]: 1:07:11

no

[Unknown1]: 1:07:12

just never did it and then we were just like actually

[mark]: 1:07:13

Is that Apex legends,

[Unknown1]: 1:07:15

uh no

[Unknown2]: 1:07:16

oh we could

[Unknown1]: 1:07:16

no no no it was the one where you fly around like iron man but i can't remember

[mark]: 1:07:19

not Airpex, sorry here, M. What was it called? It wasn't Airpex. All Apex is doing all

[Unknown1]: 1:07:19

what it was called

[mark]: 1:07:24

right,

[Unknown1]: 1:07:25

yeah yeah yeah he is actually

[mark]: 1:07:26

but as free to play.

[Unknown1]: 1:07:27

yeah

[mark]: 1:07:28

go.

[Unknown2]: 1:07:28

yeah

[mark]: 1:07:29

Um.

[Unknown1]: 1:07:30

um put uh whilst you try to think of the name but yeah so they just said you know pay for

[mark]: 1:07:32

what was it called?

[Unknown1]: 1:07:36

all this stuff stuff up front and then one day

[Unknown2]: 1:07:39

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:07:39

just said yeah we're we're not doing that now it's not been successful enough but thanks for the money and then not only that stopped support in the game 'cause it was so unsuccessful

[Unknown2]: 1:07:49

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:07:50

they stop like update in it and they stop support in like the multiplayer and stuff ridiculous i can't remember

[Unknown2]: 1:07:55

yeah yeah definitely

[Unknown1]: 1:07:57

what it's called but wherever is don't buy it don't buy anything by ubisoft go

[mark]: 1:08:01

No, No even was after. Yeah, that's a

[Unknown1]: 1:08:01

just blanket yeah

[mark]: 1:08:03

good rule.

[Unknown2]: 1:08:05

it reminds me i saw something the other dayline that said if ubisoft had made alden ring ah and he had like the map and had like every single kind of like location kind of like identified on there and like it was just kind of like

[Unknown1]: 1:08:23

towers everywhere that you've got to climb

[Unknown2]: 1:08:26

yeah yeah yeah and it

[Unknown1]: 1:08:28

to unlock them up

[Unknown2]: 1:08:28

just said like it was just like quite funny yeah yeah and i just thought yeah that's about right there's no discovery in there just kind of like there's the map

[Unknown1]: 1:08:37

there is there is lid lid bear

[Unknown2]: 1:08:37

just just go to this point yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:08:41

with all the

[Unknown2]: 1:08:42

yeah it's just a matter of orienteering

[Unknown1]: 1:08:43

enigmatic and out of it yeah just

[Unknown2]: 1:08:45

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:08:46

walk and you go crack on

[Unknown2]: 1:08:48

just walk which which reminds me um battlefield the latest batibot feld twenty forty two um i was really excited to play there and when i played the demo i thought oh this is this is i um so i threw my money out of it and spent like a hundred quit or something ridiculous amount of money for a game and i spent the first two days just running around dying ah

[Unknown1]: 1:09:19

yeah getting shot by

[Unknown2]: 1:09:20

' the maps

[Unknown1]: 1:09:21

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:09:22

yeah the maps were so huge there unless you kind of like got a tank or a helicopter stray away and you're one of those lucky people you kind of knew which buttons to mash to get onto those vehicles you have to run for about twenty minutes before kind of like you get there and then you you get there and then somebody just gets a sniper shoot you in the head fucking dead and then you repeat the repeat the kind of like

[Unknown1]: 1:09:49

the ear stood where in fire

[Unknown2]: 1:09:54

whole kind of process again you run kind of light for about twenty minutes and kind of like get there and then somebody's just kind of like what was he what he called just um kind of

[Unknown1]: 1:10:06

camping camping

[mark]: 1:10:06

Camping.

[Unknown2]: 1:10:07

camping that's a come they're just camping there kind of like a corner and then you just bloody take taking your head off again and you just oh for fuck sake i'm

[Unknown1]: 1:10:15

is

[Unknown2]: 1:10:16

just running to die why you want go

[Unknown1]: 1:10:17

most of the most of the complaints that we've had i've just realized they're all about multi player games just play nice

[Unknown2]: 1:10:23

oh yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:10:24

one player offline games by himself

[mark]: 1:10:25

Well, this is it and the game was anthem by the way. But was the name of it?

[Unknown1]: 1:10:29

yeah that's it yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:10:31

The the

[Unknown2]: 1:10:31

yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:10:31

Steing slightp was. And Yeah, there are some people who who really love it, but there are certain. Yeah, there is

[Unknown1]: 1:10:39

oh yeah

[mark]: 1:10:39

a lot wrong with that game and one,

[Unknown1]: 1:10:40

i mean there are some people who love donald trump

[Unknown2]: 1:10:46

the emoji movie

[Unknown1]: 1:10:47

yeah

[mark]: 1:10:51

Oh

[Unknown1]: 1:10:51

yeah

[mark]: 1:10:51

Patrick. start. why did you do

[Unknown2]: 1:10:53

yeah

[mark]: 1:10:53

this to us?

[Unknown1]: 1:10:55

money money mark

[mark]: 1:10:57

No, Well fair enough.

[Unknown2]: 1:10:58

but he yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:10:59

right have we have we discussed stuff enough there was one other thing i want to talk about but i feel like we're overdue for a ux to

[Unknown2]: 1:11:05

no go on

[Unknown1]: 1:11:05

ball announcer

[Unknown2]: 1:11:07

come on let's do it

[Unknown1]: 1:11:08

so it was so i was just thinking about like accessibility and like

[Unknown2]: 1:11:14

oh yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:11:15

actually how how so accessibility is kind of essential for some people's user experience anywhere like there's you know there's no way around it and if you put in good accessibility features into games you're allowing more people to play them but you're also allowing a better experience for people with different needs but one thing that doesn't get like talked about in terms of accessibility that much is like things like so not not like physical and site based accessibility things it's more like for example i realized a bit ago few years ago now when the last of was two came out that i get quite bad anxiety when i'm playing games and that is like an i realize when i'm playing this game that is an accessibility concern and i sort of realized that the the anxiety comes from missing content and missing weapon

[Unknown2]: 1:12:13

oh

[Unknown1]: 1:12:13

pickups or missing amour or missing like you know like secret customizations or things like or upgrading new weapon and um the last of his two actually offers features that help with anxiety or there's a couple of them there's all automatic pickup so whenever you walk past ammo or items or something your character just reaches out and grabs them without you having to pressed the button and then another one or

[Unknown2]: 1:12:41

nice

[Unknown1]: 1:12:41

another two which is like you can ping items in a room so you can you can turn the function on that you press either left or right analog button in and it does kind of like a sauna and it shows you all the items that you haven't picked up yet and that allows you to like know

[Unknown2]: 1:12:59

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:12:59

that you've cleared an area properly and that's you know that ties into that um the argument of like get good and stuff and you shouldn't allow these features for people to like quote unquote cheat at the game but it alleviate like those people don't suffer from

[Unknown2]: 1:13:17

ah

[Unknown1]: 1:13:17

the crippling anxiety of not being able to carry on the game until you've made sure you've picked up all the plastic bottles in a room

[mark]: 1:13:25

Yeah, yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:13:25

oh my god dear yeah oh my god dear yeah

[mark]: 1:13:27

I. I think it's really really important point. this because there is. I mean the video game Com Unity is by large fine, but at its heart there is a rotting contingent of individuals who believe that if someone is after a different experience, what thereafter then they should die or something as as stupid as that,

[Unknown1]: 1:13:48

yeah i mean you're probably not that

[Unknown2]: 1:13:49

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:13:50

yeah that's probably not an exaggeration there are probably quite

[mark]: 1:13:52

And you know,

[Unknown2]: 1:13:52

do yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:13:53

a reasonable amount

[mark]: 1:13:53

if you,

[Unknown1]: 1:13:54

of people who actually think that

[mark]: 1:13:55

Yeah, if you see some of the

[Unknown1]: 1:13:56

two

[mark]: 1:13:57

victoral that goes around as the F, very hearening, when all I want to do is sit and play again where I'm driving a truck, or or a far

[Unknown1]: 1:14:05

fly the plane for two hours

[mark]: 1:14:06

in farm, in a turnip, or y, y,

[Unknown2]: 1:14:07

yeah

[mark]: 1:14:08

exactly, Um, And one of the. One of the communities around this is Um. the The Darks community. Other what you know of the Fromm software Elden Ring were back. You know. it's like poultry or rhymes were back where we began. Um. and the thing is is from software games are mechanically incredibly difficult. Dying in that game is part of the mechanism and I must admit, as some one who hadn't really played Um the games myself before it did take a certain switch in my attitude to understand Oway. It doesn't matter if I if I die here, I know where I'm going and know how to pick up what I'll lose. It's all part of the process, Um. there are, however, quite a very very difficult boss fights. It's very normal to try forty fifty times before you, you fight a boss and then, as you can imagine, there are quite a few people who don't want to do that who still want to play this game that they have recently heard. That's fantastic and it is, but haven't got time. Haven't got patience. haven't got the Um. endurance, shall we say, to throw themselves at again the same five minutes of gameplay forty fifty times and so Er, Whilst there's no difficulty settings in Elden Ring or in Darks games, the communities responded and you can get mods that essentially lower the difficulty they makeg I don't sure how they do it. I imagineed its simple stap changes and and health point changes, and this is one of the most ▁quot, andquote controversial things in the community and it inspires hatred from people. Um. Because of this sort of g, good nature and that, there is one particular quart which reads, Um, The some, some frustrated virgin had written, Um, You're not only cheating the game. you are cheating yourselves.

[Unknown1]: 1:16:19

i'll get fucked

[mark]: 1:16:19

And it's

[Unknown2]: 1:16:20

oh yeah

[mark]: 1:16:20

like if I was

[Unknown2]: 1:16:21

yeah

[mark]: 1:16:22

a surgeon and I was, I was doing something to skip a few steps in the spinal

[Unknown1]: 1:16:27

yeah

[mark]: 1:16:28

surgery I was giving to this child.

[Unknown1]: 1:16:30

air

[mark]: 1:16:31

Then, yeah, I wouldn't just be cheating the child. I'll be cheating myself. I understand in the gravity of that Mormon, but if I just want to be able to to play a game on a on a slightly a a difficulty that to acclimatize to my needs as as a as a user,

[Unknown2]: 1:16:46

eight

[mark]: 1:16:46

you know, and it's It's configurable if I find. it's too easy when I get in the rhythm of it. I just fucking get rid. But yet there are or there's a lot of. Um,

[Unknown1]: 1:16:57

if you're

[Unknown2]: 1:16:57

i didn't get there

[Unknown1]: 1:16:57

talking about like exercise or you know running a race or a weight lifting or something that would apply if you you know

[mark]: 1:17:04

Mhm,

[Unknown1]: 1:17:05

if you

[Unknown2]: 1:17:05

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:17:05

fede in yourself but ironically that's these people aren't doing that they sat at

[Unknown2]: 1:17:13

yes

[Unknown1]: 1:17:13

home was in aw playing computer games all day

[mark]: 1:17:19

And you know

[Unknown1]: 1:17:20

uh

[mark]: 1:17:20

this

[Unknown2]: 1:17:20

it's

[mark]: 1:17:21

there is. It's a nice idea to be really good at games at the same way. It's a nice idea to be really good at anything. You know. I

[Unknown2]: 1:17:28

yeah

[mark]: 1:17:28

would love to be able to bedge press Um, more than twice or three times my weight. Just so I could say I could do it. The barrier to entry on that is way too high for for the packet of noodles that constitutes my physique, so I'm not ever going to try. Um, and I think the same. You know. The same sort of thing applies here and are a lot of people who want to be good at these games, but a lot of people who quite frankly

[Unknown1]: 1:17:53

yeah

[mark]: 1:17:54

think it was a nice idea, but I've got other more important things to do

[Unknown1]: 1:17:55

uh

[Unknown2]: 1:17:55

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:17:56

i'm i'm physiologically incapable of playing the dark tolls game like if after after not doing it like the third time i i can't like i i have i have i have i anger issues and you know i've broken i've broken control pads in the past where it's an a dog i don't and i don't care if you think i'm good at this game or not i have absolutely no like competitiveness well not in terms of video games or like sport anywhere like maybe in things that

[Unknown2]: 1:18:29

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:18:30

actually matter like you know my career or

[mark]: 1:18:33

the career. Yeah,

[Unknown1]: 1:18:34

a or how big my willie is but but but yeah when it comes to like

[mark]: 1:18:41

oh, do.

[Unknown1]: 1:18:42

proving proving myself a video game like couldn't care less really couldn't

[mark]: 1:18:48

but

[Unknown2]: 1:18:48

yeah is

[mark]: 1:18:49

so sorry go.

[Unknown2]: 1:18:51

no i was gonna say it's it's interesting because there's a lot of like e e sports kind you know that's kind of not your big thing and kind of like you know there's a lot of like competition and people being really good at video games but it is like sports isn't it i mean if everyone was amazing at tennis you know

[Unknown1]: 1:19:11

they not that no one would be

[Unknown2]: 1:19:11

would andy mori yeah you know

[mark]: 1:19:13

Yeah, we wouldn't go and watch it because we' all be busy. Play

[Unknown1]: 1:19:16

played

[Unknown2]: 1:19:16

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:19:17

tennis yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:19:18

exactly yeah you know if everyone was like you know louis hamilton i'd be fucking worried on the streets but but i said we

[Unknown1]: 1:19:30

very good

[Unknown2]: 1:19:33

but you know and if everyone was super good at something then you know you you just make an elitist study then

[mark]: 1:19:41

well, that's exactly. Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:19:41

if you don't have those as kind of thus

[Unknown1]: 1:19:42

well yeah there is is a weird elite is a minute

[mark]: 1:19:45

there is.

[Unknown2]: 1:19:46

yeah

[mark]: 1:19:46

I think there's a certain. there's a certain um. Overlap, and you know it is important to consider that sometimes games are designed to be a certain way, now changing the way that that that firm played absolutely fine. It just in my mind, it just makes it a slightly different experience. And if I da't or do want to engage with that, it doesn't matter. Uh, people like different things, Um, I think, and that comes back to you know, like the auto Lote feature saw that, for example,

[Unknown1]: 1:20:20

what's that

[mark]: 1:20:21

uh, aut all loots. Won't you what you described in Uh, the A

[Unknown1]: 1:20:23

all loot sorry i

[Unknown2]: 1:20:24

yeah but they cl

[Unknown1]: 1:20:24

thought he said loop i thought he said loop

[mark]: 1:20:26

No auto lute, Um, And so, for example, that's an option in World of

[Unknown1]: 1:20:30

yeah

[mark]: 1:20:30

Warcraft, Um,

[Unknown2]: 1:20:32

no yeah

[mark]: 1:20:33

And that that is Um, specifically an option Because in that game, unlike Um, Er, Lastivals, a massive ma, ma, multiplyy online game. Uh, half the things you collect you don't want, Um. there's no kind of scarcity. Everything's infinite might be a drop rat and stuff like that, but you throw yourself at it enough you'll get it. Arguably an infinite amount of time. Um, So that's why that's a feature. Uh, though that you can toggle on an office is because some people want it by myself because I don't want to go picking everything up. Oh, yeahea, y,

[Unknown1]: 1:21:05

uh yeah yeah yeah the crap

[Unknown2]: 1:21:08

yeah

[mark]: 1:21:08

Um,

[Unknown1]: 1:21:08

yeah um out riders does that as well

[mark]: 1:21:12

and

[Unknown2]: 1:21:13

yeah

[mark]: 1:21:13

yeah, it does Y. And and there was a game actually where they'd actually integrated that as a auto, looting as a power up by Sp. A game called Foy Bastards, which I

[Unknown1]: 1:21:23

ah yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:21:24

oh yes dear

[Unknown1]: 1:21:24

does it doesn't cyberpunk do it as well i think cyber punk does it as well

[mark]: 1:21:25

heartily recommend. I don't know. To Be honest, I don't know. but um,

[Unknown1]: 1:21:30

oh or breaks down sorry that's crafting it or break yeah

[mark]: 1:21:32

oh yes, yeah, yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:21:33

no

[Unknown1]: 1:21:33

which i thought

[mark]: 1:21:34

um,

[Unknown1]: 1:21:34

was quite nice as well

[mark]: 1:21:35

an and invoid bastards. Your characters have positive and negative traits. The that's game where dying is part of the mechanics to get a new character

[Unknown2]: 1:21:43

yeah

[mark]: 1:21:43

every time you die. Um,

[Unknown1]: 1:21:44

a second rog like in it but three a first person one

[mark]: 1:21:46

yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. yeah. Um, And so you, you go to these certain ships and you get these uh, d, n. a splicer things that allow you to select an upgrade and one of them is the ability to at all. So what I find interesting is that in some games it's a feature. In some,

[Unknown1]: 1:22:07

yeah

[mark]: 1:22:08

it's an accessibility option, Um, and in some it's a gameplay option for you know that customizability. Uh, and in some some cases it isn't an option. It's something the community has to create itself and often does, which is a testament to the good side of the community.

[Unknown2]: 1:22:26

yeah i think back back in the day and i think um some of the lego games did this and they can you the cheat codes aren't there on your but they'll they built it into the mechanism when you will lock it kind of as the further you go down on to it and you you have to c so many things or look at i like stuff like that and

[mark]: 1:22:45

I. I, yeah, I like that, Um. The

[Unknown2]: 1:22:47

yeah

[mark]: 1:22:47

the Lego games allows you to purchase

[Unknown2]: 1:22:49

ah

[mark]: 1:22:49

cheats and and silly

[Unknown2]: 1:22:50

yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:22:51

things. You are like everyone at a Lego Star Wars ever on broom instead of a light saber, Bloody brilliant. Um, you know.

[Unknown2]: 1:22:59

helium voices and big heads

[mark]: 1:23:00

Yeah, exactly

[Unknown1]: 1:23:00

at the

[Unknown2]: 1:23:01

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:23:02

i do really like the idea of like something that might be seen as like an inconvenience later being removed by like progress into the game i really like that does um

[mark]: 1:23:15

well, That's

[Unknown2]: 1:23:16

yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:23:16

usually what Progressing Does you know? Um? I. I. I've been thinking about this a lot because I've been examining how many much play too many games. Basically, but if you get something that allows you to uh, upgrade your equipment at certain point, so it makes stuff easier to kill. That's exactly what that is, and I think one of the fundamental. Um, I wouldn't call it problems. I don't want to say the word diotomy again, but the kind of um jokestaposition is that there you go. There's another one. Um. Is

[Unknown2]: 1:23:52

nice

[mark]: 1:23:53

that accessibility is is about Ca, and this is a reductive definition. We, if we haven't already will doing Popcast accessibility. Um.

[Unknown2]: 1:24:02

yeah

[mark]: 1:24:04

But it's about making things easier for that specific user based on their specific requirements based on their needs, and when you mixed of easier and a video game inevitably reduce the difficulty somewhere, And I think

[Unknown2]: 1:24:20

bye

[mark]: 1:24:20

it's about understanding when that's difficulty by design, and when it's just bad U.▁x.

[Unknown1]: 1:24:27

yeah odd i mean like

[Unknown2]: 1:24:28

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:24:29

the difficult game shouldn't be difficult because you would dell a different hand by life than someone else

[mark]: 1:24:36

Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:24:37

yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:24:38

yeah, that's very true. Like anything.

[Unknown2]: 1:24:40

true

[mark]: 1:24:40

Like anything,

[Unknown1]: 1:24:40

yeah yeah yeah it's a an quality

[Unknown2]: 1:24:42

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:24:43

of let me get this right because one's good and one's bad it's in the quality of opportunity not the equality of outcome

[Unknown2]: 1:24:52

nice

[mark]: 1:24:54

very very nice. he said.

[Unknown2]: 1:24:56

yeah that's a quote

[Unknown1]: 1:24:58

it's not my co as a thing it's not my co as a thing

[Unknown2]: 1:24:59

ill ill make a tshirt

[Unknown1]: 1:25:01

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:25:02

i'll make a t shirt man it cool

[Unknown1]: 1:25:04

yeah that's fine i i mean i'm i'm happy to steal that until the the eventual court case i've already stolen i've already stolen aristotle's trip tick so i can i

[mark]: 1:25:14

Yeah. Yeah,

[Unknown1]: 1:25:15

could steal what whatever that is as well

[Unknown2]: 1:25:16

he yeah yeah cool

[mark]: 1:25:16

I saw something similar, which is which someone says to you. You have the same amount of hours in your day as Beone and the response to that is yes, but not the resources.

[Unknown1]: 1:25:25

yeah yeah molt yeah

[mark]: 1:25:30

The I can't remember a comedian. I have since forgotten the name of the said that,

[Unknown1]: 1:25:37

where molly got got dragged over hot cos for use it in that quote which he didn't even coin but yeah anyway that's a different

[Unknown2]: 1:25:45

nice

[Unknown1]: 1:25:45

podcast right should we do

[Unknown2]: 1:25:47

well

[Unknown1]: 1:25:47

should we do ux to

[Unknown2]: 1:25:48

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:25:48

bowler then

[mark]: 1:25:49

yeah, right.

[Unknown1]: 1:25:49

hit it

[Unknown2]: 1:25:50

shall we should hit

[Unknown1]: 1:25:52

take it away

[Unknown2]: 1:25:53

i'm good blood yo my fs

[Unknown1]: 1:26:24

we really need to edit that for the next one to anyone

[Unknown2]: 1:26:28

what a lot

[Unknown1]: 1:26:28

listening um anyone listening at home on headphones or a particularly expensive speaker system we

[Unknown2]: 1:26:30

what i like about it

[Unknown1]: 1:26:34

apologize

[mark]: 1:26:36

oh,

[Unknown2]: 1:26:38

why i really like about that if you've kind of like gone be kind of like sleepy half way through the show dies the point

[Unknown1]: 1:26:45

they wake him up a little bit

[Unknown2]: 1:26:45

where you go fuck wa a pi yeah definitely

[Unknown1]: 1:26:48

and the story behind that is quite similar as well which is where

[mark]: 1:26:51

yeah. Yeah,

[Unknown1]: 1:26:51

we'd record we'd been trying and record for for fifty minutes and that was probably the last thing in the day that we were recording uh paul thought i needed to pet myself up a little bit so

[mark]: 1:27:05

so you' fucking did?

[Unknown1]: 1:27:05

in order to take the take the pi yeah take the piece i screamed into the microphone and that's the tick that paul used so that's the that's the story

[mark]: 1:27:13

Yeah? Yeah, yeah, and I forget every time.

[Unknown2]: 1:27:14

yeah i i think it was so so good

[Unknown1]: 1:27:15

behind yeah

[mark]: 1:27:17

I forget every time. and

[Unknown2]: 1:27:17

i yeah i love it every time

[mark]: 1:27:19

you know you know, Have you

[Unknown1]: 1:27:20

i've told that story already

[Unknown2]: 1:27:20

yeah

[mark]: 1:27:21

heard that? uh? yeah, I think

[Unknown2]: 1:27:23

yeah we have we had that let yeah

[mark]: 1:27:23

the last last episode. but I am

[Unknown1]: 1:27:24

all right we just edit it out

[Unknown2]: 1:27:26

it's good

[mark]: 1:27:26

well up the matter. The thing is we get its new users who listen to it every time because they immediately deafened anyway. So

[Unknown1]: 1:27:33

yeah

[mark]: 1:27:34

you know no one can hear this point.

[Unknown1]: 1:27:35

yeah the there is

[Unknown2]: 1:27:36

yes

[Unknown1]: 1:27:37

a as will have been ringing through that

[mark]: 1:27:39

Yeah, yeah, exactly

[Unknown1]: 1:27:39

explanation anyway so they'll just just be coming back down now where at the point where i sing the song singing the ux to bow the song so have ever got any music

[mark]: 1:27:46

yeah.

[Unknown2]: 1:27:47

ah

[mark]: 1:27:47

Oh yes.

[Unknown2]: 1:27:48

nice

[mark]: 1:27:50

I forgot any music.

[Unknown2]: 1:27:50

i you have to make your own music

[mark]: 1:27:52

Oh god, uh,

[Unknown2]: 1:27:53

i've got now yeah how much

[mark]: 1:27:55

I got. I've not got any rhythen.

[Unknown1]: 1:27:58

pump purple

[Unknown2]: 1:27:58

ah

[Unknown1]: 1:27:59

pomp purple pompo laon

[Unknown2]: 1:28:02

good

[Unknown1]: 1:28:02

pto

[mark]: 1:28:03

Okay,

[Unknown1]: 1:28:03

uxb let's th again let's give tom boer a spin puter and

[Unknown2]: 1:28:10

where

[Unknown1]: 1:28:10

inside the hole

[Unknown2]: 1:28:11

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:28:12

and pull out a little pole what's a pole i don't know maybe it's a word for ux stone bull ah did it

[Unknown2]: 1:28:26

amazing amazed the walton not there

[mark]: 1:28:27

oh, you are diseased of mine, my dear.

[Unknown1]: 1:28:33

i could have been on eight mile

[mark]: 1:28:36

Is that a drug?

[Unknown1]: 1:28:38

uh yes it's

[Unknown2]: 1:28:40

it was

[Unknown1]: 1:28:40

the new it's a new super drug from holland that sweeping the nation

[mark]: 1:28:44

I see? I see.

[Unknown1]: 1:28:46

he put it up the bottom

[mark]: 1:28:48

I call all lives good things.

[Unknown1]: 1:28:48

like a i i could suppose it that's like ait anyway so today's today's ux tombola is dishwashers oh well i said

[Unknown2]: 1:29:01

t the terminal well

[Unknown1]: 1:29:03

it now it now

[Unknown2]: 1:29:05

um f fine go

[mark]: 1:29:06

Well, I didn't hear what you said, so

[Unknown1]: 1:29:07

all right yeah do

[Unknown2]: 1:29:08

now

[Unknown1]: 1:29:08

it gone yeah do it

[Unknown2]: 1:29:09

tom

[Unknown1]: 1:29:15

dishwashers

[Unknown2]: 1:29:16

hello

[Unknown1]: 1:29:18

have we done this one before

[mark]: 1:29:18

I need

[Unknown2]: 1:29:19

interesting

[mark]: 1:29:19

to know. I don't know because

[Unknown2]: 1:29:21

now

[mark]: 1:29:21

I feel like I am going to complain about Rid said, and I do this at least once a week.

[Unknown1]: 1:29:28

first we do the first we do with the explanation as to why the intro to ux tober is so loud and then we talk about rinsed it's that classic friday afternoon conversation yeah go on then go on andron said classic friday afternoon conversation yeah go on then go on andron said

[mark]: 1:29:37

Yes, yeah, yeah, mhm, mhm, Mhm, Mhm,

[Unknown2]: 1:29:37

yeah yeah yeah tell us about rena book

[mark]: 1:29:42

I need to know. I need to know the levels of rens

[Unknown1]: 1:29:46

re

[mark]: 1:29:46

and uh, the dishwasheraalts in my machine, because as far as I'm concerned, those two little holes and one doesn't even look like a whole. It iss very strange.

[Unknown2]: 1:29:57

oh yeah

[mark]: 1:29:57

Just lead, just lead to out of space. It just out of space lead to outer space And there's like tons and tons of dishwasher thoughts being poured into that hole by me every

[Unknown2]: 1:30:11

ah my god yeah

[mark]: 1:30:11

fuck in day

[Unknown1]: 1:30:12

it just goes nowhere

[mark]: 1:30:13

because I just have no idea how much I'm supposed to put in where it's meant to go.

[Unknown1]: 1:30:16

i mean use the tablets that you just put in and then my interaction with the dishwasher for the day is done

[mark]: 1:30:24

Yeah, I should do that. Um, but I need some aid with the vincing part because the

[Unknown1]: 1:30:30

you need something to complain about every week do you sir

[mark]: 1:30:32

there, my de. sorry. did the

[Unknown2]: 1:30:34

one

[mark]: 1:30:34

tablets you use therecause? I just get the cheapest one of can, which probably explains why my dishwasher shit, but um do they have

[Unknown1]: 1:30:43

yeah

[mark]: 1:30:44

life dishwasher cleaning stuff in and know you can get like five in one tablets and

[Unknown1]: 1:30:48

also they said the cle

[mark]: 1:30:48

stuff.

[Unknown2]: 1:30:49

oh yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:30:49

y you're talking about something that cleans the dishwasher

[Unknown2]: 1:30:52

seven one

[Unknown1]: 1:30:53

rather than something you use to clean the dishes

[mark]: 1:30:53

No, No, I don't know if

[Unknown2]: 1:30:55

no yeah you have all this

[mark]: 1:30:55

you're aware of this, Nick. I don't know if you're aware of this, but there are three parts not to the dishwasher but to loding the dishwasher so that it cling clean. You have your dishwasher tablet. Yes, but before that you have

[Unknown2]: 1:31:10

check

[mark]: 1:31:11

your dishwashers salts,

[Unknown1]: 1:31:13

but the fox are

[mark]: 1:31:13

and

[Unknown2]: 1:31:13

check

[mark]: 1:31:14

then you have your Wn. Said,

[Unknown1]: 1:31:15

what the fuck

[Unknown2]: 1:31:16

check

[Unknown1]: 1:31:16

what what the what are you talking about dish

[Unknown2]: 1:31:19

we just we so well actually though to in where we live in manchester the water is so is it

[Unknown1]: 1:31:31

hard hard

[Unknown2]: 1:31:31

soft here so soft

[Unknown1]: 1:31:32

hard

[Unknown2]: 1:31:32

hot

[Unknown1]: 1:31:34

he talking about line

[mark]: 1:31:34

I always learned

[Unknown2]: 1:31:35

so hot

[Unknown1]: 1:31:35

scale we talk about lica

[Unknown2]: 1:31:37

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:31:37

build up right yeah hard td

[mark]: 1:31:38

well if it's soft. Do you get lime scale or not?

[Unknown1]: 1:31:41

no

[mark]: 1:31:43

but we don' get livescae. Here's a Google dill lill,

[Unknown2]: 1:31:45

now yeah yeah soft and soft yeah we've got we've got soft so we don't need the salt yeah so we don't need to put salts in our dishwashers because of our water

[Unknown1]: 1:31:53

all right i see i see what yeah and that so having

[Unknown2]: 1:31:54

but but but

[Unknown1]: 1:31:56

lived in the north of england where we have beautiful soft water drinkable water i have never encountered

[Unknown2]: 1:32:01

yeah yeah and that's why so yeah yeah yeah and that's where your beard is so silken

[Unknown1]: 1:32:05

but i've never had to put that in more so

[Unknown2]: 1:32:09

and fluffy because

[Unknown1]: 1:32:10

luscious yeah because of all the soft water that i run through it

[Unknown2]: 1:32:12

because the water yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:32:13

So why am I learning this on this fucking podcast? Why is no one told me where?

[Unknown1]: 1:32:21

complete you put in

[Unknown2]: 1:32:22

because

[Unknown1]: 1:32:22

completely superfluous salts into your wash every week

[mark]: 1:32:25

Yeah, Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:32:26

yeah yeah yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:32:27

and also all right, I go assume. because I've not done it in about six months Because I don't know whether when I have to. I don. all.

[Unknown2]: 1:32:34

there is a massive problem

[Unknown1]: 1:32:35

i

[mark]: 1:32:36

I just think about it.

[Unknown1]: 1:32:36

i just want i just wanna talk about the fact that you have complete nothing but complete like disrespect for the apartment that you live in you've hammered a nail through a fire door you've illegally

[mark]: 1:32:47

Yes.

[Unknown1]: 1:32:48

you've illegally purchased a car you've you've broken and remade one of the sofas that were provided but

[mark]: 1:32:54

Yes. Yes,

[Unknown1]: 1:32:55

my god will you look after the dishwasher

[mark]: 1:33:00

Well mean, where do you put it like that?

[Unknown2]: 1:33:07

le can we just clarify the car you didn't illegally buy the cat the cat was

[mark]: 1:33:11

No, No, No, I was a pumer.

[Unknown2]: 1:33:11

above board purchase

[Unknown1]: 1:33:12

sorry

[Unknown2]: 1:33:13

yeah it was it was a like some sort of like was this like back streak

[mark]: 1:33:18

I'm keeping an

[Unknown1]: 1:33:19

so

[mark]: 1:33:19

O off in this in this

[Unknown1]: 1:33:20

yeah sorry i didn't i

[mark]: 1:33:21

apartment.

[Unknown1]: 1:33:22

didn't mean to imply that it was like a black market purchase of an illegal like like

[Unknown2]: 1:33:26

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:33:26

tropical animal what i

[Unknown2]: 1:33:27

like

[Unknown1]: 1:33:28

mean is i always be

[Unknown2]: 1:33:29

light light

[Unknown1]: 1:33:29

in in a in a silly way i was saying that he's not allowed pets whether the domestic are

[Unknown2]: 1:33:34

okay

[Unknown1]: 1:33:35

are endangered

[Unknown2]: 1:33:37

yeah yeah i just don't get that just

[mark]: 1:33:39

Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:33:39

just in case

[Unknown1]: 1:33:40

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:33:41

legal people came

[mark]: 1:33:45

she's a drug mule

[Unknown2]: 1:33:45

but yeah good point though

[mark]: 1:33:47

said,

[Unknown2]: 1:33:50

so your server response stories

[mark]: 1:33:53

but I do. I do feel like I should clean the dishwasher because that's what cleans my dishes.

[Unknown2]: 1:34:00

that is a good point

[mark]: 1:34:01

You know, Whereas you know everything else can go to shit. Ercause. it's not clean in my dishes. Um, and that includes my brothercause.

[Unknown1]: 1:34:08

i was just gonna say

[mark]: 1:34:08

you're not doing. Am I y? fuck?

[Unknown1]: 1:34:10

other than chris

[mark]: 1:34:11

I'm sorry that that's just for Chris. The who? who will probably not listen to this

[Unknown2]: 1:34:17

oh nice um y it's

[Unknown1]: 1:34:21

so are we gonna talk about the ux of diss at any time

[Unknown2]: 1:34:25

yeah like show after we got over got lie

[Unknown1]: 1:34:29

so

[mark]: 1:34:29

Well, the other,

[Unknown2]: 1:34:29

we

[Unknown1]: 1:34:29

i

[Unknown2]: 1:34:30

just

[mark]: 1:34:31

the other, the other puzzle, Eternal Puddle with dishwasher is louding them

[Unknown2]: 1:34:36

oh

[mark]: 1:34:37

and the right

[Unknown2]: 1:34:38

what's the

[mark]: 1:34:38

waycause. There is a right way of louding them,

[Unknown1]: 1:34:41

oh

[Unknown2]: 1:34:41

oh

[mark]: 1:34:42

and the best way I can explain this is. I do it the right way. I don't know what the fock crystal Iusk. I, I

[Unknown2]: 1:34:51

okay

[mark]: 1:34:52

think he lords it from a different room. Anding's just suck him to accident.

[Unknown2]: 1:34:59

pretty good

[Unknown1]: 1:35:01

like like basketball like

[Unknown2]: 1:35:01

give us an example mark what is yeah

[mark]: 1:35:05

This's just your.

[Unknown2]: 1:35:06

does he just put the cups the right way around so they just can't the water

[mark]: 1:35:08

no. No, no, he's not that

[Unknown1]: 1:35:10

oh my god

[mark]: 1:35:10

bad. it's not. He's not

[Unknown1]: 1:35:12

fu

[mark]: 1:35:12

insane.

[Unknown1]: 1:35:14

that's oh that's just given me the rage just even thinking about someone

[Unknown2]: 1:35:18

uh

[Unknown1]: 1:35:18

doing that

[mark]: 1:35:19

The

[Unknown2]: 1:35:20

oh good but

[mark]: 1:35:20

right way to do it is big plates

[Unknown2]: 1:35:22

yes

[mark]: 1:35:22

in one place, bowls in one place, Um one. I think

[Unknown1]: 1:35:26

what

[mark]: 1:35:27

what was an, and then small place in another, and if you got pans that you can fit in between Fa, enough, um, and

[Unknown2]: 1:35:35

there

[mark]: 1:35:36

then at the top you've got your

[Unknown1]: 1:35:37

you

[mark]: 1:35:37

glasses and your mugs. And and we put utensils at one side of that, this is riveting content. Um. And and Chris, Chris, somehow he does those things, but somehow

[Unknown2]: 1:35:50

and

[mark]: 1:35:50

manages only to get about thirty per cent of the dishes in that

[Unknown2]: 1:35:54

hey

[mark]: 1:35:54

I do,

[Unknown2]: 1:35:58

is this might be by design though because he probably thinks like after he's done thirty percentage of putting the dishes in there he thinks can't be fucking asked to do anymore that's my job

[Unknown1]: 1:36:08

if no it's the classic it's the classic it's the classic i don't want to do this i'm gonna do it badly so that they never asked me to do it again

[Unknown2]: 1:36:17

yeah yeah yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:36:17

that that's what it is

[mark]: 1:36:18

and yet to be further that worked. That works for a Ti. I and a nervous breakdown, and

[Unknown2]: 1:36:26

yes

[mark]: 1:36:26

subsequently Chris is now washing himself in the dishwasher. subsequently Chris is now washing himself in the dishwasher. subsequently Chris is now washing himself in the dishwasher.

[Unknown1]: 1:36:27

and murdered him

[Unknown2]: 1:36:34

yeah so i i like i like that but what i'm going what i'm going to argue is the ba there's a bad ux in there straight away because if you supposed to put your glasses up this up all the time i've got so many glasses that don't fuck him fit in the top i have to put them downstairs and then what do i put in that space

[Unknown1]: 1:36:58

you need to uh you say that's a problem

[Unknown2]: 1:36:58

can i put bowls in there is that is that etiquette

[Unknown1]: 1:37:01

you've bought inappropriate glasses for the dishwasher that's what's happening there

[Unknown2]: 1:37:05

yeah

[mark]: 1:37:06

Yeah, you find the car

[Unknown1]: 1:37:06

it's not the dishwasher's fault

[Unknown2]: 1:37:07

yeah it

[mark]: 1:37:08

before the house there pole. before the house there pole.

[Unknown1]: 1:37:09

yeah if you if you

[Unknown2]: 1:37:09

you know

[Unknown1]: 1:37:10

rocked up to your garage in an eighteen ton like eighteen wheel a truck you wouldn't be like s stupid garage too small for my live to rock rock up in a bow

[Unknown2]: 1:37:22

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:37:23

in seven four seven on your drive you're like well that that garage is inappropriate for my new purchase isn't it

[Unknown2]: 1:37:30

well

[Unknown1]: 1:37:31

bloody builders

[mark]: 1:37:31

when you

[Unknown2]: 1:37:32

you know what

[mark]: 1:37:32

put it like that, Nick. Paul also is like

[Unknown2]: 1:37:34

yeah

[mark]: 1:37:34

the unreasonable one.

[Unknown2]: 1:37:39

and also dick how when have you been around my house to see me try and pop my bowing for in the garage

[mark]: 1:37:47

considerable about skill involved in be.

[Unknown2]: 1:37:48

i just yeah yeah i did a two hour flight sim from london to manchester

[Unknown1]: 1:37:58

taking these taking

[Unknown2]: 1:37:59

and it just

[Unknown1]: 1:37:59

these peripherals a bit too far are you

[mark]: 1:38:02

I'm not. I'm not sure it's appropriate to do a low altitude flight in a Boeing report that they'll piss a lot of people off, Though that,

[Unknown2]: 1:38:12

well that's say exactly why i do it

[mark]: 1:38:20

so

[Unknown2]: 1:38:20

but i i i do feel like the glasses when they when you buy a glass it should fit to the dishwasher it should just fit in that compartment can someone just measure a glass and put it in there

[Unknown1]: 1:38:35

like standardized glasses

[Unknown2]: 1:38:38

yeah yeah yeah don't

[mark]: 1:38:38

I'll make it

[Unknown1]: 1:38:38

like a

[mark]: 1:38:39

so that your dishwasher compartments are ijustible.

[Unknown1]: 1:38:42

so yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:38:44

oh that's effort

[Unknown1]: 1:38:45

god that's a that's a that's an exciting product of it for for mark steel to sell

[mark]: 1:38:49

Yeah, well,

[Unknown2]: 1:38:50

that

[Unknown1]: 1:38:51

a

[mark]: 1:38:51

what I was thinking about, so I think we should make it adjustable like that, But one thing I think we should do cause it is one thing I. I don't do enough is onlded the dishwasher, I onlyload the

[Unknown1]: 1:39:03

that's so much that's someone else's job yeah no if the person who loads the

[mark]: 1:39:03

dishwasher, when the next Lord needs to go in.

[Unknown1]: 1:39:08

dishwasher is not responsible for unloading the dishwasher that's the other house

[mark]: 1:39:12

Oh you a nick, nick you.

[Unknown1]: 1:39:13

mis

[Unknown2]: 1:39:15

but please yeah

[mark]: 1:39:16

Oh, you intoxicating innocence. Youre

[Unknown2]: 1:39:21

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:39:21

this is my

[mark]: 1:39:22

intoxicating innocence.

[Unknown1]: 1:39:23

this is my socialist utopian dream is that every man should only

[mark]: 1:39:27

Oh yes,

[Unknown2]: 1:39:27

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:39:28

after either load or

[Unknown2]: 1:39:29

i

[Unknown1]: 1:39:29

unload the dishwasher

[mark]: 1:39:30

Well, that's not how this works, Atick. What it is

[Unknown2]: 1:39:33

i know

[mark]: 1:39:34

is I do the work and that's the end. That's the end of the sentence.

[Unknown2]: 1:39:44

i feel like we've opened the pandora's box of like dishwashers something like

[Unknown1]: 1:39:48

yeah mark has been wearing for years to get this off his chest

[mark]: 1:39:51

Yeah, yes, yes, exactly.

[Unknown2]: 1:39:53

yeah

[mark]: 1:39:53

since we started. so I hope you listening, brother. you fuck.

[Unknown1]: 1:39:57

he was the one that he was the one that put this into the tumble hoping that one day it would be every every time we do ux tumbler is sat there going dishwasher this wash this washer this washer this person

[Unknown2]: 1:40:05

that's good dis you please play

[Unknown1]: 1:40:07

collected

[mark]: 1:40:11

but I think

[Unknown1]: 1:40:11

the time is at hand

[mark]: 1:40:13

a

[Unknown2]: 1:40:14

oh

[mark]: 1:40:14

potential solution to this is Um, a second dishwasher

[Unknown2]: 1:40:21

oh now

[Unknown1]: 1:40:22

you're a mad man

[mark]: 1:40:22

and the in the way this works it. it. I can give you a A. a similar effect. It's exactly the same. so, um, I'm not sure it's actually worth it. but you know you hear you got. we call them Claths, maidens, clothes, horse, um drying rack, Fiar, Claths. And

[Unknown2]: 1:40:41

yeah

[mark]: 1:40:41

no one thing you've got to be careful of is getting a second one of those. Because of universally what will happen is one will go from being uh, drying

[Unknown1]: 1:40:50

you like

[mark]: 1:40:51

your claws to being where you keep your dry clothes. And and then as you take those clothes off, they go into the dishwasher. No, no,

[Unknown2]: 1:41:02

y

[mark]: 1:41:02

don't be going into the washing machine and there and then they go Ono, the empty maiden, and when they there they get, they become dry cloth. And then that new maiden becomes where you keep your dry clothes and you switch between the two, and I suggest that's one possible solution for your

[Unknown2]: 1:41:26

what

[mark]: 1:41:26

dishwashers, Um, you have a su, a second dishwasher, or a dry compartment in your dishwasher, which is just where you keep you dishes. And then

[Unknown2]: 1:41:36

yeah

[mark]: 1:41:36

yououghtn that up. You use your dishes. You put them in the dirty soiled compartment, as will call itcause. It's a horrible word, and all love using it. Um, and then they get cleaned and then they automatically get moved into the the dry compartment and it's just like this aterating system.

[Unknown2]: 1:41:57

you know what that you we joke about this but i actually talked about doing this and i i've been because i i'm the only person that ever deals with the dishwasher

[mark]: 1:42:11

Mhm.

[Unknown2]: 1:42:11

um an ever can stacks it or empties it or does anything th there's a there's a rule in our house if you make a meal you don't have to fill around to the dishwasher that's the rule but it's not ah applied whatsoever

[Unknown1]: 1:42:26

but that's not the reality

[mark]: 1:42:30

more of a guideline.

[Unknown2]: 1:42:30

so cause yeah cause usually when i got day play id just put it straight into the dishwasher everybody else just leaves it somewhere near the dishwasher if

[Unknown1]: 1:42:41

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:42:41

i'm lucky um yeah some people coco don't even fuck movie it out of the room they left it in

[Unknown1]: 1:42:51

you know what you know what

[Unknown2]: 1:42:52

and i just

[Unknown1]: 1:42:52

you should do is just stop making them food and that problem will solve itself

[mark]: 1:42:57

Yeah, yeah, one way or the other

[Unknown2]: 1:42:58

yeah

[mark]: 1:42:58

that problem

[Unknown1]: 1:42:58

yeah

[mark]: 1:42:59

will resolve itself, might resolve itself

[Unknown2]: 1:43:01

yeah

[mark]: 1:43:01

with a corre. case.

[Unknown1]: 1:43:02

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:43:03

yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:43:03

Still a resolution.

[Unknown2]: 1:43:04

yeah yeah yeah i went i went down the if anyone comes around now for kind of food it's paper plates i'm not doing dishes

[Unknown1]: 1:43:14

oh yeah yeah my i i admit who actually did that i moved into an apartment and

[Unknown2]: 1:43:15

for lads of we yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:43:18

bought paper plates so that they never had to wash up and he thought it was great but it was just

[mark]: 1:43:24

I can.

[Unknown1]: 1:43:26

living like a giant toddler

[mark]: 1:43:26

I've thought about that,

[Unknown2]: 1:43:27

tick for the environment

[mark]: 1:43:28

but I've got standards like I can't Can't do that

[Unknown1]: 1:43:31

ah this was this was years ago this is before caring about the environment became cool

[Unknown2]: 1:43:37

yeah

[mark]: 1:43:38

well For places. You can get one set made out of recycled material. Mean you

[Unknown2]: 1:43:39

and but yeah yeah true

[mark]: 1:43:44

can recycle them. What is the? you know? one thing people don't realise? Interest, in fact, is that it takes as much energy to make one talk Ba, as it does make ten thousand plastic bags

[Unknown2]: 1:43:59

i can imagine yeah

[mark]: 1:43:59

or a thousand.

[Unknown1]: 1:44:00

amazing

[mark]: 1:44:00

It's at least a thousand.

[Unknown2]: 1:44:02

yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:44:02

probably more than. but

[Unknown2]: 1:44:04

yeah

[mark]: 1:44:04

Um, so Yeah, which ones? Um, so Yeah, which ones? which ones the I want to use? You know.

[Unknown2]: 1:44:11

and yeah

[mark]: 1:44:13

That's a different. The u. ▁. a climate change.

[Unknown2]: 1:44:13

it would that that could be a y yeah the u x u x of tote banks can we put that one in the machine

[mark]: 1:44:19

Yeah, Yeah, we can

[Unknown1]: 1:44:20

yeah i love it

[mark]: 1:44:21

docause. I' got some somewhere.

[Unknown1]: 1:44:23

did

[mark]: 1:44:23

Um.

[Unknown1]: 1:44:23

we get

[Unknown2]: 1:44:23

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:44:24

a product then we need something that

[Unknown2]: 1:44:26

i i think it's the duel dishwasher that

[Unknown1]: 1:44:27

like the empties

[mark]: 1:44:29

Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:44:30

automatically and just becomes a cupboard

[mark]: 1:44:32

Mhm,

[Unknown2]: 1:44:34

for for flights and and

[Unknown1]: 1:44:34

oh oh is

[mark]: 1:44:35

just

[Unknown1]: 1:44:36

that what you were saying so basically

[mark]: 1:44:37

yeah. yeah.

[Unknown1]: 1:44:37

your your

[Unknown2]: 1:44:37

yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:44:38

crockery crockery cupboard moves across the kitchen every week genius

[mark]: 1:44:43

well,

[Unknown1]: 1:44:43

that's genius

[Unknown2]: 1:44:44

well no no it's still there but you've just got you've just got two dishwashers

[Unknown1]: 1:44:49

no i'm saying no like yeah but the crockery cupboard moves from this dishwasher to

[Unknown2]: 1:44:49

glued together essentially

[Unknown1]: 1:44:53

that dishwasher

[mark]: 1:44:54

Mhm, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown2]: 1:44:55

yeah you put dead

[Unknown1]: 1:44:55

effectively effectively moving around the room

[Unknown2]: 1:44:57

yeah

[mark]: 1:44:58

Mhm. yeah, yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:44:58

you put dirty plates in one cupboard take clean plates have another jobs dump

[mark]: 1:45:02

Mhm. yeah. yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:45:04

that that's the dream

[mark]: 1:45:06

and it also, And uh, what's her name? is it? Mary?

[Unknown1]: 1:45:08

wait what

[mark]: 1:45:08

Condor, the lady who thinks we should all live in shoe boxes. Um, she, She

[Unknown1]: 1:45:13

yeah

[mark]: 1:45:14

loved this as well, because it. it limits the amount of Um crockery can on to how much you can fit in a dishwasher.

[Unknown2]: 1:45:22

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:45:22

ha okay yeah i'm down with that let's do it

[Unknown2]: 1:45:25

i like it

[mark]: 1:45:26

How, what

[Unknown1]: 1:45:27

take it w

[Unknown2]: 1:45:27

gone yeah i feel like there was gonna be

[mark]: 1:45:27

you? How can you have any questions about any of this? It's a flawless system.

[Unknown1]: 1:45:33

it's absolutely flawless yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:45:38

i like it yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:45:38

if i if i had any questions i would be the unreasonable one

[mark]: 1:45:41

Yes,

[Unknown1]: 1:45:42

right so the what's the product dishwasher too dishwasher too

[mark]: 1:45:44

e.

[Unknown2]: 1:45:45

molly

[mark]: 1:45:47

oh, that's a start. That's the start of the. That's the side of the

[Unknown1]: 1:45:51

that's it oh cook

[mark]: 1:45:51

a mummy. I don't want to te the dish wasash you again.

[Unknown2]: 1:45:54

and

[Unknown1]: 1:45:55

ck

[mark]: 1:45:55

Walk off.

[Unknown2]: 1:45:55

probably is

[Unknown1]: 1:45:55

needs something so the entire house has

[Unknown2]: 1:45:57

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:45:58

to know about it to know about it

[Unknown2]: 1:46:00

yeah yeah fucking right

[Unknown1]: 1:46:02

he i can you get me some

[Unknown2]: 1:46:04

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:46:04

bailer

[Unknown2]: 1:46:06

yeah it probably would be that so it would be that yeah mommy i've this kick cat and i got two fingers

[Unknown1]: 1:46:14

the yeah well

[Unknown2]: 1:46:16

put two together

[Unknown1]: 1:46:17

so will you if you don't start filling that dishwasher up

[Unknown2]: 1:46:23

i'm just gonna put the bowls upright just a pi severely off

[mark]: 1:46:28

so

[Unknown2]: 1:46:29

have your breakfast in that go on

[mark]: 1:46:30

yeah, the.

[Unknown1]: 1:46:32

the dishwasher too

[mark]: 1:46:32

I mean, this is going to be a quick one. Yeah, y.

[Unknown1]: 1:46:34

is dishwasher too

[mark]: 1:46:36

hello.

[Unknown2]: 1:46:36

yeah

[mark]: 1:46:37

I marked dealer'. just outside of our of bolted a kids in our white goods, emporium and Arcaid and I have for you.

[Unknown2]: 1:46:47

forgot where you work

[mark]: 1:46:49

I have for you in in today. it's just a parking lot in in day's emporium into today' porium. I have for you the perfect dishwashing solution in his two dishwashers, for the price of two dishwashers, Thank you very much. G. marks de there.

[Unknown1]: 1:47:08

so

[mark]: 1:47:09

that's it we.

[Unknown1]: 1:47:10

oh

[mark]: 1:47:10

That's the products, two dishwasher, and that's

[Unknown1]: 1:47:15

amazon

[mark]: 1:47:15

exactly how they'd sell it as well, al ell e doll. are you after? are you after? Ah, I've got a product for your dishwasher, Is that what you're after loaf for right, I've got you sorted, F, and fettle a kit over E. I've got one another one. just like it. De you. Hi, empty in a dishwasher, little man. It's a lot easier. You'll never have to do that again to spy the other one alongside it at twice as much capacity. twice as many dishes. That'll be

[Unknown1]: 1:47:40

half the effort

[mark]: 1:47:40

four hundred and fifty pounds.

[Unknown2]: 1:47:43

it

[mark]: 1:47:45

No guarantee

[Unknown1]: 1:47:48

no returns

[Unknown2]: 1:47:52

definitely no returns yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:47:54

outside the back door of you know is

[Unknown2]: 1:47:55

yeah

[mark]: 1:47:56

is glasses cloth in porium. Who has got two dishwashers

[Unknown1]: 1:47:58

yeah it's got you got you go back next week to return it and the shop's just gone

[Unknown2]: 1:47:58

it's a tit

[mark]: 1:48:02

Yeah, yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:48:03

yeah

[mark]: 1:48:03

there's just you know it it.

[Unknown2]: 1:48:05

to it's it

[mark]: 1:48:05

What's this weird sushi restaurant with gravy?

[Unknown1]: 1:48:12

but the man who looks

[Unknown2]: 1:48:13

oh got

[Unknown1]: 1:48:13

suspiciously like mark steeler but with a fa beard on

[mark]: 1:48:16

Yeah, are in a culturally inappropriate outfit like a

[Unknown1]: 1:48:21

yeah

[mark]: 1:48:22

an old cartoon.

[Unknown1]: 1:48:23

yeah it's

[Unknown2]: 1:48:27

i got ah

[Unknown1]: 1:48:27

is from a different generation mark

[mark]: 1:48:30

He definitely is. it definitely is is our mark stealer, but uh, but yeah, that's it, and I think he will call it dishwasher. two point or or dishwasher, too. Um,

[Unknown2]: 1:48:41

too pao

[mark]: 1:48:41

but the truth is it's just two old dishwashes covered in a bit ta up.

[Unknown1]: 1:48:45

it's just two dishwashers sell a tip together

[Unknown2]: 1:48:47

ah yeah

[mark]: 1:48:48

Yeah, yeah,

[Unknown1]: 1:48:49

it's dope plugs

[mark]: 1:48:50

a gaff a tape over

[Unknown2]: 1:48:50

yeah

[mark]: 1:48:51

the theme.

[Unknown2]: 1:48:53

i'm going to give it a bit of a ui design joke and put at two x

[Unknown1]: 1:48:59

oh

[mark]: 1:48:59

I like it

[Unknown1]: 1:49:00

that's not yeah it's not a u x show it's like a marketing joke at it no self respected uh u x designer has ever said two

[mark]: 1:49:08

at to. ▁x.

[Unknown1]: 1:49:08

or ten x yeah at two x to ex efficiency

[Unknown2]: 1:49:14

well that's me not self respective

[mark]: 1:49:19

Yeah, that's basically. I made very thinly veiled insult there, Neick when you think about it,

[Unknown2]: 1:49:23

hello

[Unknown1]: 1:49:26

hey if if if paul wilshire doesn't want to respect himself that's paul wha's problem

[mark]: 1:49:32

this is true. this is true. Yeah, right,

[Unknown1]: 1:49:36

have

[Unknown2]: 1:49:36

straight strat happens all the time

[Unknown1]: 1:49:37

and i have nothing nothing but good things to say about paul wilshire but

[mark]: 1:49:41

this is true.

[Unknown1]: 1:49:41

that paul will show though not not not so much

[mark]: 1:49:46

M. yeah,

[Unknown1]: 1:49:50

right is that was then do we need to

[Unknown2]: 1:49:50

well that's been

[mark]: 1:49:51

yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:49:52

a lovely that has been a lovely chat

[Unknown1]: 1:49:54

house

[mark]: 1:49:54

it isn't it. Yes,

[Unknown2]: 1:49:55

yeah i've really enjoyed that

[mark]: 1:49:58

I think. Um,

[Unknown2]: 1:49:58

it's be good and i think we need some sort of music and our show

[mark]: 1:50:40

go

[Unknown2]: 1:50:40

nicks just

[mark]: 1:50:42

on the phone.

[Unknown2]: 1:50:42

on to uh the is this ordering some dish wash salt

[mark]: 1:50:48

Cancel that order.

[Unknown2]: 1:50:49

so

[mark]: 1:50:49

We got soft water after all.

[Unknown2]: 1:50:54

yeah

[mark]: 1:50:55

Do I shift tick?

[Unknown2]: 1:50:55

somebody

[mark]: 1:50:56

six tons

[Unknown2]: 1:50:56

yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:50:57

of dish washer all.

[Unknown2]: 1:51:01

somebody told me something about rinse is that different to the tablets

[mark]: 1:51:09

Oh God, I think I' going to go and find Ed the ring now.

[Unknown2]: 1:51:13

oh nice nice

[mark]: 1:51:15

Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:51:15

an to kill some du default kids after touching grass

[mark]: 1:51:21

yeah, yeah, sounds

[Unknown2]: 1:51:22

go

[mark]: 1:51:22

good. I need to eat something of not eating yet. not eat yet.

[Unknown2]: 1:51:27

some i think next on a takeaway that's what yeah you're cool

[mark]: 1:51:29

That be good. I'll have Hawaiian, even though I've never. you know. I've never ever had Hawaiian pizza before.

[Unknown2]: 1:51:35

have you know

[mark]: 1:51:35

No,

[Unknown2]: 1:51:37

missing out missing out

[mark]: 1:51:37

yeah, I don't know why, just its one of those where I like the idea of it, but there is always something else I like the idea of more.

[Unknown2]: 1:51:48

that's called uh your least favorite option

[mark]: 1:51:54

Suppose. yeah, yes, you. I just never thought to try.

[Unknown2]: 1:51:58

yeah i like eating meats but i like eating children more

[Unknown1]: 1:52:08

sorry about that i got a phone call

[Unknown2]: 1:52:09

all right

[Unknown1]: 1:52:09

and usually when my phone rings it's something

[Unknown2]: 1:52:12

oh

[Unknown1]: 1:52:13

well it never rings so it it's either bad news or a wrong number well it never rings so it it's either bad news or a wrong number

[mark]: 1:52:17

What was it

[Unknown1]: 1:52:19

a

[Unknown2]: 1:52:19

this

[Unknown1]: 1:52:19

wrong number

[mark]: 1:52:19

that your mother say? Oh, shet sorry. wrong.

[Unknown1]: 1:52:22

no it was uh it was cock or asking if i could bring a roller

[Unknown2]: 1:52:26

yes

[Unknown1]: 1:52:27

tyler ros

[Unknown2]: 1:52:29

you know what if she had your number you'd

[mark]: 1:52:32

you know about

[Unknown2]: 1:52:34

yeah

[mark]: 1:52:34

if Kit cat's not got enough, Ba, was the

[Unknown2]: 1:52:37

now

[mark]: 1:52:37

meaning of this

[Unknown2]: 1:52:39

she on the phone yeah she'd be i'm just uh just gonna give you a call while i'm doing something else and just leave you on facetime in the corner

[Unknown1]: 1:52:51

oh

[mark]: 1:52:54

lovely? Absolutely,

[Unknown2]: 1:52:55

oh i got yeah which which reminds me i read something for me today about a recruiter and they got um a response from somebody didn't this gen zed person didn't get the job and the response back to the recruiter was a meme she said but you said uh but y i subside like

[mark]: 1:53:22

I think I know that name. Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:53:23

that's a meme they like that is is this how we're going is this visual communication

[Unknown1]: 1:53:30

every day

[Unknown2]: 1:53:31

okay

[Unknown1]: 1:53:31

we stray further from god's light

[Unknown2]: 1:53:36

you i don't just say the effort find in the meme and kind of like unless it was at hand like

[Unknown1]: 1:53:43

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:53:43

kind of like he can like they could have just quite easily have just typed

[Unknown1]: 1:53:47

i just said that

[Unknown2]: 1:53:48

ah that's a shame why

[mark]: 1:53:49

I think I do.

[Unknown2]: 1:53:50

can you give me

[Unknown1]: 1:53:50

and then

[Unknown2]: 1:53:50

some feedback

[Unknown1]: 1:53:52

the person who didn't give the job went yeah that was the right decision

[mark]: 1:53:56

Mhm.

[Unknown2]: 1:53:59

i just

[mark]: 1:54:00

We've had entire meetings which have been run with memes in the background and they've always been better.

[Unknown2]: 1:54:05

well you yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:54:07

true yeah true

[Unknown2]: 1:54:07

yeah true true true yeah it was just it was just the it was just the pure the effort of finding that me

[Unknown1]: 1:54:15

then just write it it

[Unknown2]: 1:54:15

over kind of like writing an email or

[Unknown1]: 1:54:16

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:54:17

like go yeah i just say yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:54:19

Most people have access to a ready library of mems these days. I have a few that I use frequently, including Um, Do it from

[Unknown1]: 1:54:29

do it

[mark]: 1:54:29

Um. stars,

[Unknown1]: 1:54:31

i've got a few gts

[mark]: 1:54:32

and one of yeah, Yeah, one of my favorites is Betty White dabbing, God rest us all,

[Unknown1]: 1:54:38

when when me and drew first met i've responded to her text messages almost exclusively with angela lansbury gifts

[mark]: 1:54:48

Ma. Who are you together?

[Unknown1]: 1:54:50

yeah

[mark]: 1:54:50

I'd be.

[Unknown2]: 1:54:51

yeah

[mark]: 1:54:51

I jump into your trousers for that.

[Unknown2]: 1:54:58

oh god yeah nice

[Unknown1]: 1:55:02

thanks guys i had a lovely i had a lovely time

[Unknown2]: 1:55:02

on that no

[mark]: 1:55:03

Yeah,

[Unknown2]: 1:55:04

yeah been absolutely lovely

[mark]: 1:55:06

it has.

[Unknown2]: 1:55:06

no better i better feed some people now and then

[Unknown1]: 1:55:10

yeah i'm gonna go get some food and i'm absolutely starving

[Unknown2]: 1:55:13

yeah

[mark]: 1:55:14

Yeah, me too, me too,

[Unknown2]: 1:55:14

and no doubt i have to do the dishes after

[Unknown1]: 1:55:16

you have to disrupt her as well

[mark]: 1:55:17

yeah, me too, me too.

[Unknown2]: 1:55:17

so

[mark]: 1:55:21

Don't even get me started about wine glasses and dishwashers. I basically

[Unknown2]: 1:55:25

ah

[mark]: 1:55:25

survive exclusively at winelasses, not eating them, eating out, eating out of them anyway.

[Unknown2]: 1:55:33

least in hats of wine glasses blood

[mark]: 1:55:34

Yeah, clearly need a glass of wine.

[Unknown2]: 1:55:38

yeah chris do the fucking dishes very good

[Unknown1]: 1:55:42

do the

[mark]: 1:55:43

Thank you.

[Unknown1]: 1:55:43

dishes gs da them

[Unknown2]: 1:55:48

he cont do now he's just got

[Unknown1]: 1:55:50

go

[Unknown2]: 1:55:51

sexy pants sexy pants

[Unknown1]: 1:55:52

sat with a sat with a pillow and his lap isn't until that subsides

[Unknown2]: 1:55:55

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:55:57

right

[mark]: 1:56:00

Hete's my fing life. Oh God,

[Unknown1]: 1:56:07

just make sure you cut this out you

[Unknown2]: 1:56:10

no

[Unknown1]: 1:56:12

no now that's going in that's going live

[Unknown2]: 1:56:14

it's going in it's going in it

[Unknown1]: 1:56:16

sometimes i'm incredibly thankful that we don't have an audience

[Unknown2]: 1:56:23

we do we do

[mark]: 1:56:23

I don't know. I feel like we'd be justified in our insan if we did have one.

[Unknown1]: 1:56:26

yeah i think if you've made

[Unknown2]: 1:56:27

ma name

[Unknown1]: 1:56:28

it this far you know what to expect

[mark]: 1:56:30

exactly.

[Unknown2]: 1:56:31

i yeah i think if we did it any different then it'd be boring be the same as everybody

[Unknown1]: 1:56:35

we went move on be us we

[Unknown2]: 1:56:37

else's yeah exactly

[mark]: 1:56:37

no, exactly

[Unknown1]: 1:56:38

yeah

[Unknown2]: 1:56:39

yeah yeah you get what you see

[Unknown1]: 1:56:41

and you get what you pay for

[mark]: 1:56:41

okay,

[Unknown2]: 1:56:42

cool

[mark]: 1:56:42

guys. Let's

[Unknown1]: 1:56:43

right

[mark]: 1:56:43

would

[Unknown2]: 1:56:44

yep puce

[mark]: 1:56:44

you like to see mying pa before we go.

[Unknown1]: 1:56:46

oh he big punch oh

[Unknown2]: 1:56:47

oh yeah yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:56:48

mark's got his big plan son

[mark]: 1:56:49

I don't know you'll be able to see.

[Unknown2]: 1:56:50

uh i was gonna stop recording but i think this should go in

[mark]: 1:56:53

I've got to move the chair

[Unknown1]: 1:56:54

a check then big puns

[Unknown2]: 1:56:56

i got

[mark]: 1:56:57

and I stand

[Unknown1]: 1:56:57

those are the biggest

[Unknown2]: 1:56:57

oh

[Unknown1]: 1:56:58

pants i've ever seen

[mark]: 1:56:59

with my big

[Unknown1]: 1:56:59

or

[mark]: 1:56:59

Pams. Just go

[Unknown2]: 1:57:02

oh

[mark]: 1:57:03

do like

[Unknown2]: 1:57:04

no

[mark]: 1:57:04

they say they were quite wide.

[Unknown1]: 1:57:05

oh those big puns

[mark]: 1:57:07

Quite.

[Unknown1]: 1:57:08

oh yes i do see what you mean

[Unknown2]: 1:57:09

no no i yeah i

[Unknown1]: 1:57:15

on the other side and the other side

[Unknown2]: 1:57:20

i wouldn't say they were overly big i've seen

[mark]: 1:57:24

No,

[Unknown2]: 1:57:25

i've seen bigger pods i've seen bigger pods

[mark]: 1:57:26

they're not, but they.

[Unknown2]: 1:57:27

where's this going

[Unknown1]: 1:57:29

you want to google if you want to see big pants google oliver tree

[Unknown2]: 1:57:33

i know oh

[mark]: 1:57:37

I'm no doing that because I don't know what any of that means.

[Unknown1]: 1:57:40

but

[Unknown2]: 1:57:40

yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:57:41

really i really have to go i'm absolutely starving

[Unknown2]: 1:57:43

yeah me too there yeah come

[mark]: 1:57:43

Yeah, me too.

[Unknown1]: 1:57:43

i'd also got to wait for this thing to upload as well so

[Unknown2]: 1:57:47

oh yeah sorry yeah yeah

[mark]: 1:57:48

just

[Unknown1]: 1:57:48

that's alright

[mark]: 1:57:48

leave. just leave it open. It doesn't need a

[Unknown2]: 1:57:51

yeah

[mark]: 1:57:51

pase many portrait.

[Unknown2]: 1:57:54

definitely yeah

[Unknown1]: 1:57:55

right

[Unknown2]: 1:57:55

cool

[mark]: 1:57:56

I'm going to go

[Unknown2]: 1:57:56

right

[Unknown1]: 1:57:57

bye

[Unknown2]: 1:57:57

sia bye

[Unknown1]: 1:57:59

love you

[mark]: 1:57:59

byebe.